DirectX 12

Discussion in 'Videocards - AMD Radeon Catalyst Drivers Section' started by trocio2, Mar 7, 2014.

  1. trocio2

    trocio2 Master Guru

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  2. shadow_craft

    shadow_craft Member Guru

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    Mantle is here now, DirectX 12 doesn't have a release date.

    M$ will probably require Windows 8 or 9 for it to work.

    As for low-level Mantle vs DirectX 12 performance, that remains to be seen.

    I hope it fails to be honest and Mantle/OpenGL takes over along with SteamOS.
     
  3. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

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    lol Apparently its finished and will be released on March 20th, 1 day before that show ends

    Just around the time when windows 8.1 gets update 1 (April 7th)


    http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/34137-directx-12-to-be-introduced-march-20th
     
  4. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

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    SteamOS will take years to gain any traction. Linux is still an unknown to the vast majority of users. Until Linux gains real traction in the consumer market, most game devs will avoid it. SteamOS will have a very hard time changing that because most users are going to pick the OS/platform that they're most familiar with. That gives Windows, XBox, PlayStation and Nintendo a huge advantage over Linux, SteamOS and Steamboxes

    As for DirectX and Mantle. Ultimately it will be NVidia that decides which succeeds. AMD won't have a choice but to support DirectX 12, Mantle and OpenGL. NVidia, on the other hand, only has to support DirectX 12 and OpenGL. Without NVidia, Mantle will eventually fizzle and die if MS actually comes through with the promises for DirectX.....if it doesn't die purely from devs losing interest.

    Sure, DirectX 12 is going to be part of Windows9 but there's no guarantee for Windows8.1 getting support. The next "update" for Win8.1 is supposedly scheduled for release on March 8. People want to bitch and whine about it, but MS is a business and they're out to make money. They don't make money by porting new "tech" to old operating systems.
     

  5. trocio2

    trocio2 Master Guru

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    Interesting..
     
  6. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

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    I googled Windows 8.1 update1 release date and one site mentioned April 7th.
     
  7. GhostXL

    GhostXL Ancient Guru

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    I have a feeling Nvidia will only support Mantle if at all, when they have to. They will probably go all out with DX12. Nvidia could contribute to Mantle though who knows. It all boils down to what developers want honestly.
     
  8. nhlkoho

    nhlkoho Ancient Guru

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    If its done and ready I'm going to be upset. I just bought this damn GTX770. But it will probably be 2 years before any worthwhile games use DX12 anyway.
     
  9. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    True, everytime i think i will take a chance and buy a new card a new bit of news arrives that makes me hold off.

    Hopefully after this announcement there will be more clarity, and i wont have to worry about upgrading to them find out newer games will not be looking/running their best.
     
  10. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

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    Yeah, I got too much going on. It's supposed to be "patch tuesday" in April, not March. Thinking I need to start re-reading my posts better before submitting. Thanks for correcting me though.

    Developers are going to stick with whatever has the greatest level of support. If NVidia doesn't support Mantle, then DirectX 12 will win. Studios will either have to support both DirectX and Mantle, side by side.....or drop Mantle altogether. They certainly aren't going to risk the financial losses and backlash from gamers for dropping DirectX support.
     

  11. F1refly

    F1refly Ancient Guru

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    Mantle is a stop gap, to make their CPU's run more like the i5's in games or some such. Apparantly AMD has no real plans to compete mantle, using it due to the fact that OpenGL isn't taking hold and DX12 is MS's attempt to compete with OpenGL and it's extensions as possible threats arise with SteamOS.
    It's all about variety of platforms and low level access and MS wants/needs both...so I read anyway.
     
  12. Extraordinary

    Extraordinary Ancient Guru

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    It leaked earlier tonight in the form of 4 x MSU updates, installed it, feels a little faster, couple of UI changes for Metro / Apps on taskbar

    Not much to write home about
     
  13. Spets

    Spets Ancient Guru

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    Honestly Android has a better chance of bringing games to OpenGL at the rate they're going instead of SteamOS.
     
  14. Wagnard

    Wagnard Ancient Guru

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    To the contrary, I hope it is a huge success. I prefer standard vs fragmentation.
    DirectX is already well known and if they can make it better, then in my book, it is good.

    What I truly hope is that they are able to even maybe optimize the current DX11.x implementation so that we may maybe see all a free performance boost.

    For those who hate Win8.1 than just wait for Win 9 (its not that far away and will refocus more on desktop usage)
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2014
  15. fasor

    fasor Active Member

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    I think that DirectX 12 is something about marketing.

    It will require Win9. There will not be games with DirectX 12 support, because new consoles have DirectX 11 chips and all games are developing for consoles first of all.

    And mantle is great, because it works for Win7 (i mean - i really hope it will work for my video in battlefield with next drivers =)) and i can use all my videocard powers without Win 8/8.1/9.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2014

  16. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    I got a good laugh when I read M$ bravely introducing DX12 as many had believed they'll pop in DX11.2/3 extensions or even revamp DX11 internals to be more optimized.

    Well, GCN is likely to support whatever M$ comes with as it's quite universal architecture.
    What matters is, how well will DX12 do vs Mantle.

    DX12 is not actually saving M$, it is saving nVidia's high end of next generation as thsose cards are likely to be powerful enough that any current CPU on DX11 will be huge bottleneck at 1080/1600p which will still be standard for few years.
     
  17. sverek

    sverek Ancient Guru

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    Shouldn't it be the opposite? I am pretty sure GPU will suffer more than CPU as resolution goes up. Yes there will be more API calls, but it shouldn't cause CPU to bottleneck. (unless we talking low end CPUs, which already bottlenecks)
     
  18. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    1080p is standard resolution today, up to 1600p will be standard for few years from now.
    2160p is high resolution. And it's market penetration is likely to be good in 3 years as prices are not that bad already.

    On 1080p very strong GPU can pull 300fps in some games as they are not that GPU demanding. But CPU will usually allow you to get only 80-90fps.
    At 1600p Such top end GPU may still pull 150 fps, but it will still be limited by CPU capable to do 80-90. On 2160p such CPU would be just enough as GPU would be capable to do around 80fps.

    For today standard 1080p, where you may want to play at 120/144Hz CPU is real bottleneck as GPU is not allowed to be used 100% even if you take details to low on some games.

    If you do not understand or agree with 120/144Hz gaming, then divide all numbers by two and imagine that it's game which simply have more elements on screen requiring twice as many draw calls.
    Then you would get 1080p paired w/ GPU capable to do 150fps, but CPU not giving it information to render more than 40-45fps.

    nVidia is bringing potentially very power efficient GPU (maxwell), with great rendering capabilities, which is likely to be wasteful with 1080p screens and CPUs without OC (that is only reason why I OC my CPU, as without OC it's just OK for 60-80fps gaming).
     
  19. Rich_Guy

    Rich_Guy Ancient Guru

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    DirectX/OpenGL Claiming to have solved CPU Overhead – If True, Mantle is Dead On...

    Arrival

    Source :- Wccf
     
  20. Sdar

    Sdar Member

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    Well, Nvidia is likely to push Opengl instead of mantle, In march 20 in the GDC there's going to be some great news around Opengl: http://schedule.gdconf.com/session-id/828316

    Approaching Zero Driver Overhead in OpenGL (presented by Nvidia)

    They claimed 10x less overhead (that's even more than mantle that claims ~9x)

    [...Graham Sellers (AMD), Tim Foley (Intel), Cass Everitt (NVIDIA) and John McDonald (NVIDIA) will present high-level concepts available in today's OpenGL implementations that radically reduce driver overhead by up to 10x or more...]

    Anyway Nvidia has some Opengl extensions that give you low level access to hardware... AMD just has an Opengl implementation that barely works... but AMD is going to talk about Opengl in the GDC too, likely some good news...

    And Opengl + Nvidia extensions are a Mantle like api since some time now.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2014

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