Direct-X 12 will destroy PC gaming. This is the most important tech article ever

Discussion in 'Videocards - AMD Radeon Drivers Section' started by BradleyW, Mar 1, 2016.

  1. BradleyW

    BradleyW Master Guru

    Messages:
    301
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    R9 290X CFX
  2. lmimmfn

    lmimmfn Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    10,376
    Likes Received:
    67
    GPU:
    AorusXtreme 1080Ti
    Good, Vulcan is the future
     
  3. Alessio1989

    Alessio1989 Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,483
    Likes Received:
    261
    GPU:
    .
    Frame-rate throttling != v-sync.

    The first discard frames until previous presentation is completed, the does not process any other frame before the previous presentation is completed.

    A future update will probably allow unleashed framerate on WStore too but there is no EAT.

    Vulkan will still need to deal the driver presentation implementation. If IHV wants to use atomic synchronization despite the code the application is running you cannot do nothing.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2016
  4. Dch48

    Dch48 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    1,822
    Likes Received:
    1
    GPU:
    Sapphire Nitro+ RX 470 4g
    I honestly don't see any big issue here.
     

  5. Alessio1989

    Alessio1989 Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,483
    Likes Received:
    261
    GPU:
    .
    The big issue is with 60Hz monitor where tearing may be preferred by some people. But remember that the compositor was chanage with the November update, there are still very few DX12 games out yet and packing driver takes time (usually 1-3 months).
     
  6. lmimmfn

    lmimmfn Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    10,376
    Likes Received:
    67
    GPU:
    AorusXtreme 1080Ti
    Yes but surely Vulcan will support native full screen with variable refresh rates? Maybe dx12 will too but it doesn't look like it currently does from that article
     
  7. AsiJu

    AsiJu Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    5,966
    Likes Received:
    1,310
    GPU:
    MSI RTX 2070 Armor
    Quote from the article:

    "...Microsoft shifts developers and hardware vendors into a standard path through the OS compositor rather than bypassing it..."

    so the API that was supposed to grant developers and games more access (to hardware) is now actually restricting it.
    Yes, I know those refer to different things actually but this is nothing short of... I dunno, a bad comedy?

    This and the WinStore and everything. F*ck this, where are my MS-DOS floppy disks...
     
  8. Alessio1989

    Alessio1989 Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,483
    Likes Received:
    261
    GPU:
    .
    DX12 support full-screen with unleashed frame-rate. What we are seeing actually is AMD driver using atomic synchronization to refresh rate avoiding tearing, but even on this case (and I am still sceptical about its correctness since I just verified it happens even when the application does not ask for it) the game will computes the frames like in unleashed frame-rate mode (v-sync off) as is in exclusive mode. The exclusive mode is emulate just to allow OS to display notifications to the user (which are off by default) which require to sync temporary to the desktop refresh rate.

    This is why I want an official response or see to the complete WDDM 2.0 programming guide, since it was told me the complete opposite. And honestly speaking, I believe more the Ms staffs then techs/geeks-websites.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2016
  9. Anvi

    Anvi Member Guru

    Messages:
    127
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    R9 390 8GB
    Drawing conclusions from a game in alpha stage doesn't make much sense.
    I'm 100% sure developers will continue to include v-sync on/off option in Steam releases.

    Microsoft Store with its restrictions is just a big pile of turd.

    I'm hopeful that Vulkan will improve and see wide support from AAA developers. It's tiresome to have DirectX support tied to OS version.
     
  10. Agonist

    Agonist Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,768
    Likes Received:
    185
    GPU:
    RX Vega 56 8GB
    Gears of War failed release today shows exactly what is is so damn wrong with the windows store. ANd even Rise of the Tomb Raider showed problems.
    Its not looking good.
     

  11. Turanis

    Turanis Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,478
    Likes Received:
    218
    GPU:
    Gigabyte RX500
    I read what you wrote on other site.
    NO,dont wanna support DirectX 11 & nvidia siren song for their single thread queues.

    I will support DirectX 12 & Vulkan,not old tech. :banana:

    And yeah Windows Store is a mess dont buy games from them,just support Steam.
     
  12. sean8102

    sean8102 Member Guru

    Messages:
    169
    Likes Received:
    1
    GPU:
    EVGA GTX 1080 SC
    Sounds like most of the problem are from the Windows store and the restrictions it places on apps/games at the moment. Not really D3D 12. If microsoft is smart they will improve Windows store, esp for game devs. Right now its quite poor. The tomb raider WS store version gets updates much slower than steam.
     
  13. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    7,005
    Likes Received:
    139
    GPU:
    Sapphire 7970 Quadrobake
    The author packs WDDM 2.0/DX12 features/recommendations with restrictions from the Windows Store, in one wonderful clickbait-y package.
    Apart from the Windows Store (which is suicide for any developer except MS, so you'll keep finding your games in Steam), EVERYTHING ELSE mentioned is a good step towards standardization. The only trouble is the developers themselves, who have to be trusted with all these powers.
     
  14. Alessio1989

    Alessio1989 Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,483
    Likes Received:
    261
    GPU:
    .
  15. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    7,005
    Likes Received:
    139
    GPU:
    Sapphire 7970 Quadrobake
    The connection of DX12 and the new compositor to the Windows Store, really speak about the quality of the article. I love how his "sources wished to remain anonymous", about facts someone can check with a free download of the Unreal Engine or something.
     

  16. AsiJu

    AsiJu Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    5,966
    Likes Received:
    1,310
    GPU:
    MSI RTX 2070 Armor
    Yea, I really can't understand what's the benefit for forcing everything to pass through the OS compositor if games/fullscreen apps have been able to bypass it previously.

    Granted, this is just one game, but acc. to the article what they (and Guru3D) found isn't tied to the game or it's development state in any way but rather WDDM 2.0.
     
  17. akbaar

    akbaar Master Guru

    Messages:
    303
    Likes Received:
    15
    GPU:
    ASUS 2080 STRIX
    how is SteamOS right now?
    Should I just start to jump in the wagon ?
     
  18. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    11,259
    Likes Received:
    3,314
    GPU:
    2080Ti @h2o
    Probably not right now. Last thing I read was that SteamOS games lack 15-50% of the performance of your hardware compared to a win setup with the same components. Maybe that has changed by now, but I guess it needs a bit of time, Vulkan might change that once it's around with most games.
     
  19. Ryu5uzaku

    Ryu5uzaku Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    6,791
    Likes Received:
    118
    GPU:
    5700 XT UV 1950~
    Pfft article. But yeah windows store needs an overhaul it kind of sucks atm. In general it works ok but it lacks features a lot of em. SteamOS does not sound like the best alternative in the end cause that is another closed ecosystem, and it does not support the same amount of games as "normal steam" and lacks in performance. Oh how poor options we have.
     
  20. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    9,939
    Likes Received:
    2,292
    GPU:
    5700XT+AW@240Hz
    Only thing I care about is AdaptiveSync. Because while Direct3D implementation is something to be outlived, upgraded and changed, AdaptiveSync is practically as far as technology can go.

    Maybe MS can make Adaptive sync work without exclusive full screen, but how will compositor know what application should actually control AdaptiveSync?

    If question was AdaptiveSync vs. DX12, I would say: "Let DX12 burn".
    Why? What would be better user experience?
    DX12 @144Hz screen showing all EVEN frames as 0.5ms old and all ODD as 6.5ms old and jumping between 72 and 144fps?
    Or DX11 constantly running between 90 and 110 fps while having always same lag from motion to pixel due to Adaptive sync?
     

Share This Page