Did EVGA just Steal the Rivatuner RTSS design concept into PrecisionX 15 ?

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Jul 16, 2014.

  1. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    it got uninstalled min after it was installed, they could even be bothered to do there own work. and it still inferior to AB/RTSS as a far as OSD stuff goes
     
  2. Hootmon

    Hootmon Maha Guru

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    Sorry Im late to the 'party'.

    Unwinder... You can seem a bit 'crusty' at times, but you always tell it as it is. I like that.

    EVGA... I used to buy your products. MSI all the way...
     
  3. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

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    I've reported "bugs" in AB as well and didn't receive such a response. Instead the "bug" just got fixed. Sometimes, you're not the most polite person in the world (I'm not saying I'm any better as I know I can be an ass ....). Are you sure you didn't come across as disrespectful?

    I reported a "bug" in GPU-Z and got attacked by W1zzard and his chronies over on TPU though.
     
  4. Reddoguk

    Reddoguk Ancient Guru

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    I'm gonna steal HH own work and copy & paste it here because i have a feeling that post on EVGA forums will get deleted.

    Jacob, Hilbert from Guru3D.com here.

    You keep running in repetitive circles that you didn't use any code from Rivatuner, Alexeys observation already indicated otherwise.
    Next to that it isn't solely about the code is it ? You / EVGA literately took any and every idea from the Rivatuner codebase you could use, including the config UI interface. There is no walking away from this Jacob, it is called plagiarism and it is a tag that from now on will always be attached to EVGA PrecisionX.

    As stated in my article, you guys have every right to develop a proper in-house tool. Instead somehow you guys figured it was OK to make a replicated clone of the Rivatuner design interface with your own Skin attached to it. My honest advice here, pull this software while you still can. Go back to the drawing board and redesign the software in such a manner that it doesn't look like a cheap rip-off of Alexeys software.

    You can hide behind statements and brainwash everybody that you didn't use anything from Alexey. But the fact is that even if you coded everything in-house, you guys stole his life-work by replicating and cloning it. Make the right choice while you still can my man, this isn't going to do EVGA any good. We have know each other for many years with great mutual respect, but I am afraid you guys are passing a threshold here that will taint EVGA for the rest of its existence.

    Btw - small note - you guys even copied and pasted the Rivatuner's Llicense agreement EULA - literally.
     

  5. Dragondale13

    Dragondale13 Maha Guru

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    This sums the reason for ranting.People don't understand how fked up it feels for someone to create something (mostly for the love of doing it) only for someone else to steal their hard work and it took years of fine tuning and updating, all for the love of it and the pc gaming community.I hate corporations more and more I swear.
     
  6. Anarion

    Anarion Ancient Guru

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    Evga ****ed up pretty badly this time... They could have easily avoided this.
     
  7. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    They could aviod all this if they put stop to people on there forums say rtss was corrupting drivers, Which we all know cant Changing thing threw precision x on that other hand possible can if you dont put thing back to normal too but they didnt, which what start all this. Those same people over at evga still saying this too.

    Evga is great for warranty not much else imo as they are one of the more expensive brands too.
     
  8. BangTail

    BangTail Ancient Guru

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    Unless it gets pulled and retooled, EVGA won't see another dime from me.

    We have to band together and make sure that this kind of garbage does not go unanswered.
     
  9. BLEH!

    BLEH! Ancient Guru

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    Exactly, though being an AMD GFX guy and generally going for workstation boards, none of their stuff particularly interests me anyway.
     
  10. Hlafordlaes

    Hlafordlaes Active Member

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    That's one brand that will not be among my selections when I build 4 computers later this year (waiting for Haswell-E). So long, EVGA.
     

  11. orky87

    orky87 Member Guru

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    EVGA probably the best cloners in the world!

    EVGA Just clone it!

    Feel free to add more...
     
  12. Reddoguk

    Reddoguk Ancient Guru

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    I was XFX then i went BFG and for the last 3 cards eVGA.

    All of the above had good warranty and i liked the aesthetics and factory oc's.

    All of the above offered good products with a decent factory overclock at a small premium of course. The reason in the first place for me to buy these OC'ed cards was the fact i hated having to run 3rd party software all the time like RT. Great software but for me it was a resource hog.

    Which is why i taught myself how to mod and flash the bioses so there is no software involved.

    The fact that many people get a lot more usage out of their ageing gpus using the likes of RT has saved people from whole series of cards and allowed more people to jump or miss a whole generation of cards.

    I wonder sometimes if the main players even like that at all. I skipped the 5xx nvidia cards because i RT'd the hell out of my 470 for example.

    I'm a fanboi because i hate change, that's the only reason for my loyalty to one brand. I sold about 20 eVGA cards, well not personally but informed my WoW guild at the time to trust in eVGA and most did, probably still do.

    It's too early for me to say i won't buy off them again but am i likely to tell people to trust in them? Hell No not now.

    They need just to do the right thing now, either pull it and say sorry to Unwinder or sort something out with him if that's even possible now.
     
  13. EVGA

    EVGA New Member

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    First, we value the relationship that we have with Rivertuner Alex/Unwinder since Feb.13th, 2008. With EVGA and Alex/Unwinder mutual efforts, Precision has became a very popular overclocking utility since it launched. Afterburner’s first release was in Oct. 2009.

    It was originally EVGA’s idea to provide the world’s first “simple” overclocking GUI designed for NVIDIA cards that utilizes some of the Rivatuner technology for free. Due to some misinformation floating around about EVGA Precision recently, we would like to clarify several points. Also, EVGA wouldn’t have any interest to develop our own version if Alex/Unwinder had showed his interest back then like we’ve seen today!

    1. The EVGA Precision main GUI (main Window) and format was fully designed and owned by EVGA, that means Alex/Unwinder did not design the Precision GUI at all. The Rivatuner technology was used for the backend like GPU reporting, OSD and overclocking. Other features like voltage tuning, pixel clock control and Bluetooth function were coded by EVGA. We want it to be clear that Rivatuner source code has never been released to EVGA. A year and half after Precision was introduced, Afterburner was released, that shared a lot of the same ideas and concepts originally set by EVGA’s Precision, and also used Rivatuner technology.
    2. Most gamers knew that some of the key features that have been requested and missed such as 64bit OSD, voltage control and video recording in the early versions of Precision, yet Afterburner had it. You probably don’t know that some of those ideas were initiated and requested to Alex/Unwinder by EVGA to implement into Precision well before it was available in Afterburner, but Alex/Unwinder had no intention to add it. One year later they showed up in Afterburner exclusively without any notification and/or offer to EVGA. We felt that we became Alex/Unwinder and Afterburner’s free consultant if we continue this route.

    We like Precision, the interface and the features, just like most of the gamers in the community, but under these circumstances, it became clear that in order to provide more features that are requested by the community, we needed to recode the back end from the ground up, using our own existing Precision skin designed as merely inspiration, that is why today we have the new EVGA PrecisionX 15. In the latest PrecisionX 15 we have put in some features like 64bit OSD support, Steam achievements and more. We want to make it clear that EVGA PrecisionX 15 is 100% coded in house without using any code from the older Precision due to we don’t have the source code since day one!

    EVGA will continue adding features to support the community on PrecisionX15 for free as usual, and hope to inspire other overclocking utilities to be better for the entire gaming community.

    The bottom line is that EVGA doesn’t want any third party to dictate what features the community should or should not have!
     
  14. scoter man1

    scoter man1 Ancient Guru

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    For some reason, I'm going to believe the developer rather than the company with lawyers and all that stuff. There needs to be solid proof before I lay a finger on EVGA stuff again as all others have said.
     
  15. Boulard83

    Boulard83 Member Guru

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    I was about to post this exact same post but EVGA came here before me..

    I think most of the people understand that EVGA say they own 100% of the code behind it, the thing is that EVGA could ( should, well MUST HAD ) at least try to make the option panel a little different than what we have on the original RT one.
     

  16. chanw4

    chanw4 Ancient Guru

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    If what Unwinder saying is true, it seems they (EVGA) reversed engineer the program and used code and bits from it. Which proves they are still lying about the developed 100% in house part of the statement. How much of their code is borrowed? Also, you don't need the source code to 'copy' the code. One of the System Analyst in my team did the same thing for the purpose of finding a bug or problem by third party in order to fix it.

    Saying they don't have the source code as the reason that they cannot in anyway copy the code from Unwinder is like saying they can't copied part of story because they did not have the original script.

    A better analogy would be saying they didn't copied a car engine because they do not have the original blueprint for it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2014
  17. Fender178

    Fender178 Ancient Guru

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    BS if you valued Unwinder's relationship then you should not have used the menus from RivaTuner without his permission. Do the right thing and take the product down and redesign it. You used the RivaTuner Core Architecture. Plus you copied and pasted Unwinder's EULA.
     
  18. HeavyHemi

    HeavyHemi Ancient Guru

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    Considering they both developed it....and if the timeline is accurate, and I'm pretty sure it is, one might infer AfterBurner is 'borrowed' from Precision.
     
  19. Reddoguk

    Reddoguk Ancient Guru

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    I doubt HH would just say this without some solid proof from Unwinder.

    Unwinder states that you used other bits of his work and just lazily copy and pasted it from either RT or previous versions of Precision. Although this may not be illegal in itself, it still remains a fact that you copied some of his work and never gave him a mention or any credit. Still you say this is totally 100% your own work.

    So are you saying Alex is a liar? I know he might be an ass sometimes and sold out to another firm but so what, don't come on here and try to make him out to be in the wrong or a baddie in all this.

    Don't just come along with a story that no one can confirm. Answer the critical questions asked.

    Like explain this stuff:

    Everything is even worse than I expected.

    Original EVGA Precision EXE resources and dialog templates were copy-pasted to “in-house” project as is, even original dialog control IDs are the same. Company PRs already claim that GUI is 100% designed by EVGA which is sadly not true, company designed concept art of EVGA Precision skin only. All product properties, entire monitoring section, setting and so on came from directly original RivaTuner (and were available in other RivaTuner based products like HIS iTurbo years before Precision was born) and EVGA has no relation to designing them at all. So company directly violated our license agreement terms and reverse engineered licensed binaries to copy data from it and represent it as their own design.
    EVGA completely cloned original RivaTuner’s RTMUI multilanguage context help system and localization engine. Contents of “Help” and “Localization” folders were copy-pasted to new product as is from original Precision, including localization and GUI translation databases for different languages. “Help” folder contains direct mapping of dialog IDs to help files, I guess getting easy access to it as direct reason of “copying” original dialog templates with original dialog IDs. So the company also violated our license agreement terms and redistributed parts of original product without permission.
    Even “in-house” skin still uses my original raster fonts from old good RivaTuner. But at least that can be partially justified. Out intellectual property ownership terms of agreement define that I own software product copyrights, the company exclusively owns the product distribution rights as well as non-software intellectual properties like trademarks, product name, logos and artwork I create for them during the contract. So you may try to fit “copied” fonts in this category if you close eyes on the fact that it came from original RT.
    Fun thing, even for the installer of “in-house” product the company copy-pasted my own license agreement from original installer, which contains my own third party components licensing terms and direct restriction on reverse engineering or redistributing them. Probably you’ll at least read what exactly do you copy paste, EVGA?
    The most sad and painful thing for me is that the company entirely copy-pasted RivaTuner’s unique concepts of displaying data into On-Screen Display. RvaTuner Statistics Server was the first tool in the industry that introduced the concept of in-game hardware monitoring via OSD back in 2005, I spent almost than 10 years on polishing it. And most sad thing for me is that original Precision was not supposed to include such functionality, so it is not included in development budget and royalty fees. I added RTSS to Precision in one of the first versions completely free of any licensing fees just to help the company to promote new tool and it truly became one of the most important application features. So it was used during more than 5 years completely free (and the company was never brave to admit that) and in final they originally “thanked” for free OSD usage by stealing it. EVGA’s brand new “in-house” OSD is also open a simple rip of open source FW1FontWrapper overlay. And If I were the developer of FW1FontWrapper, I’d read the story of RTSS and think 1000 times about it.

    Or do you think there's some conspiracy going on here from Guru3d? We don't know the full history of your relationship with Unwinder, but from what i can gather he jumped ship, for his own unknown reasons.

    So is this above right or not? Simple question really.

    I'm not pointing blame here on anyone. Just be truthful and honest about what you think is "ok" to use as your own and which isn't and people may forgive laziness but not plagiarism to this level.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2014
  20. GPU

    GPU Guest

    lol
    the money evga has made with $1k cards and they have to screw over a one man dev.
    sad times for sure imo

    all can say is that I trust my cards with any software Alex puts out.
    -I can say for sure that I won't be using any software that is not made from him.

    I buy only evga cards to date ,but things can change.
     

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