Did EVGA just Steal the Rivatuner RTSS design concept into PrecisionX 15 ?

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Jul 16, 2014.

  1. GPU

    GPU Guest

    this
     
  2. GeniusPr0

    GeniusPr0 Maha Guru

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    That's pretty shady. I find it annoying because Rivatuner has been out for more than a decade.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. deathnite

    deathnite Member

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    It's not about space. Try reading my post one more time. Thank you.
    Thanks for the warm welcome, but are the personal attacks really necessary?
    Installing a few applications might not slow down a system at first glance, but keep installing and over time you end up with a clogged up system and even if you uninstall, they still leave traces behind.
    It's your system and you can treat it however you like. I just decide to treat it well, so it gives the same response in return.
    There is a saying 'treat it well and it will return the favor'.

    Now that you mention .NET Framework, I also stick with the version that is distributed with the OS, I have v3.5 on Windows 7 and v4.5 on Windows 8.

    I also don't install the primitive Flash Player plugin since YouTube and most sites have switched to HTML5 and video content plays just fine in Firefox.
    The Java plugin (JRE) is a thing of the past for me, I have no use for it anymore. From the visited websites, I haven't encountered one that still uses the plugin. Probably still some around, but none that I use.
    There are still people that install these plugins even if they don't need them, just for the sake of it.

    I try to use a portable version of an application if there is one available.
    And the list could go on...
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2014
  4. southamptonfc

    southamptonfc Ancient Guru

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    Well I remember getting a load of unwarranted abuse for one post criticizing MSI over the beta expiration.

    Shortly afterwards MSI released version 3 which resolved the issue. So it seems that MSI might have agreed with me that the beta was mature enough to release a new version.
     

  5. GeniusPr0

    GeniusPr0 Maha Guru

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    Wowowowowowow, disgusting. That's after eVGA claimed the code is all theirs, for the 3rd time -- a lie.
     
  6. GPU

    GPU Guest

    http://forums.evga.com/EVGA-PrecisionX-15-500-Released-m2191593.aspx
    119 post all about problems or issues except one post so that must be you on Px which has only 2/3 of the working features of P4[rt] lol

    I wonder if evga sub'ed out the programing so they could be blind on this ,like how many man years to build PX

    if built from the ground up and not using any of alex's data base would taken years and years to test all the cards right? every card needs a data base for voltage and over clocking ,remember Alex couldn't update RT when he did not have 2 cards for sli.

    so again how many man years did it take to build PX ,when it would take evga 6 months to correct a mb bios with a major problem.

    -and plus if evga is honest about this , they could name their programers and have them put their personal stamp on this being up and up all new code and just not a rewrite of RT and with no hardware testing being done as it was done in RT.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 18, 2014
  7. GPU

    GPU Guest

    they stop after 7 posts:3eyes:
     
  8. l_gel

    l_gel Member

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    EVGA is missing one component vital to the success of the utility:

    Unwinder.

    Alexey, I would look at this as an opportunity. Now you can make Afterburner even better and watch as your imitators fail at trying to replicate your superior DNA.

    We are all behind you.
     
  9. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Well,

    I was wrong. I sincerely believed eVGA copy pasted "only" all resources. But they went as far as they could have.

    Now I am pretty sure this story will stick with them.
    And every single user which liked this tool and knows about this will hate its new "version" from eVGA.

    And since Unwinder spilled out some details about how eVGA made their agreement and approach to this compared to MSI way...

    I can say eVGA did this to give free PR points to MSI, because that is where big percentage of their customers are going as they decide passively support Unwinder.
     
  10. Unwinder

    Unwinder Moderator Staff Member

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    I don’t know how it is possible for programmer with at least a bit of reverse engineering experience to be unable to replicate the claims. I don't know how can a programmer misunderstand "string table" term and call it "Visual Studio 2008 IDE output of compilation". I don’t know why the binary analysis is applied to DLLs when I more than explicitly said that those things were traced inside EXE. I do hope it is just a question of skills.

    Anyway, you can easily replicate the claims using the following simple steps:

    - All string tables are located inside PrecisionX.exe. You can easily view this application in any binary file viewer (e.g. I use FAR) and view it as UNICODE (all string tables use UNICODE encoding). After opening it simply do a simple search for “RivaTuner” text (once again, in UNICODE). This way you’ll easily locate the string table, which belongs to original RivaTuner core with no doubts. For example in 5.0.0.16 (standalone version) it is located in close to 1E2xxx offset. It is also inside 5.0.0.17 as well. There are traces very specific to RT core, e.g. RivaTuner’s USF skin compiler/decompiler messages (“Failed to decompile %s skin”, “%s skin has been successfully decompiled” etc.), messages related to specific RivaTuner core components, e.g. RTCore driver loader messages, RivaTuner Task Scheduler Helper loader messages (“Failed to load RTTSH.dll”) and many more. Those things physically cannot be inside in-house project.
    - You can verify original RT resources usage and easily find parts of original RTMUI localization engine in “Help” folder. Just open MAP file located in that folder as an ASCII text. This file is a part of original runtime translation engine, which allows RTMUI engine to map identifiers of controls to text files containing context help for corresponding controls. Those control identifiers are automatically generated by system when you create GUI, it is impossible to generate exactly the same IDs because original UI is normally being changed/modified during many years, some new controls are being added so IDs order is rather specific, etc, etc. So even if EVGA wanted to create 100% the same GUI and visually copy it, the order and IDs would be different. Those things uniquely identify original RivaTuner core GUI, even allow you to see how the controls were added, which of them were added first, etc, etc. Just compare contents of MAP file in new product with original one to see that it is exactly the same. Even missing G15 LCD output options are there:

    Code:
    ; Properties \ Monitoring tab
    ID_1015 = Properties\Monitoring\HARDWARE_POLLING_PERIOD
    ID_1016 = Properties\Monitoring\HARDWARE_POLLING_PERIOD
    ID_1076 = Properties\Monitoring\SOURCES_LIST
    ID_1125 = Properties\Monitoring\SHOW_IN_OSD
    ID_1077 = Properties\Monitoring\SHOW_IN_LCD
    ID_1074 = Properties\Monitoring\LCD_FONT_COMBO
    ID_1078 = Properties\Monitoring\SHOW_IN_TRAY
    ID_1039 = Properties\Monitoring\TRAY_ICON_COLOR_PREVIEW
    ….
    
    And once again, let’s just stop beating dead horse. It is time to move on, leave this stinky story behind and switch to more pleasant things now. Considering that new Precision uses almost 100% visual/functional clone of RT's hardware monitoring module and claimed to be designed in-house, I decided to start the real competition from AB side and let users see how original RT's hardware monitoring "done right" should look like. Since seeing PX 15 on Computex about couple months ago I was working on pumping up Afterburner's hardware monitoring module and powering it with more things from original RT. Here is the list of changes you can see in new version pretty soon. And let the true competition begin.


    Version 4.0.0

    • Various parts of hardware monitoring module have been pumped up to improve hardware monitoring usability and flexibility and leave competing tools back in the dust:
    o Added layered monitoring graphs rendering mode. Now you may right click source graph in monitoring window, select “Attach” in the context menu then point to destination graph to attach source graph to it and create a group of layered graphs. This feature allows you to render as many layered graphs on the same grid as you wish. The colors of graphs in layered rendering mode can be customized independently of each other so you can easily identify them
    o Added multi-column monitoring graphs rendering mode. Now you can adjust the number of graph columns in “Active monitoring graphs” section in “Monitoring” tab
    o Added “Override graph name” option to “Monitoring” tab. Now you can rename the graphs displayed in hardware monitoring window
    o Monitoring history buffer size is no longer defined by monitoring window width. Now pre-history buffer size is fixed and stores the last 3600 samples (1 hour for 1000ms polling period) for each graph
    o Improved tray icon monitoring module:
    o Now you can select either text mode or barchart indicator mode for each value displayed in tray icon. Barchart indicator mode can be extremely useful for visualizing data like GPU / CPU usage
    o Improved Logitech keyboard LCD monitoring module:
    o Ported to new Logitech API to provide support for newer Logitech LCD displays
    o Added support for color LCD display of Logitech G19/G19s keyboards
    o Added graph mode support for color LCD display of Logitech G19/G19s keyboards. Now in addition to previously available text mode you can optionally select graph mode and see exact copy of MSI Afterburner’s monitoring graphs displayed directly inside the keyboard LCD. You can also press “Menu” soft button on your Logitech G19/G19S keyboard to toggle between text and graph modes dynamically in realtime
    o Added acceleration support to LCD scrolling implementation
    o Added larger 8x12, 10x12, 12x12 and 12x16 fonts support for text mode
    • Added “Regional settings” section to “User Interface” tab:
    o Temperature format settings allow you to switch between Celsius and Fahrenheit format for monitored temperatures. Please take a note that this setting affects temperature readouts only. Hardware related temperature adjustments (e.g. fan speed to temperature mapping curve for all cards or temperature target adjustment for NVIDIA Kepler series) are always being displayed and adjusted in Celsius for maximum unification, safety and compatibility
    o 12 hours / 24 hours time format settings allow you to configure time format for On-Screen Display and hardware monitoring window
    • Added “Enable low-level IO driver” option to the “Compatibility properties” section in “General” tab
    • Display device enumeration implementation has been modified slightly to allow monitoring Intel iGPUs when low-level IO driver is not enabled
    • Improved handshaking algorithm reduces the risk of seeing multiple running instances of child processes (e.g. RTSS)
    • Added automatic prerecording settings to “Videocapture” tab. When you enable automatic mode prerecording session is being started automatically on each 3D application startup. Please take a note that in this case you can still use video prerecord hotkey to stop then manually restart prerecording session if necessary
    • Drastically improved skin engine:
    o Improved skin compiler gives more detailed error messages when skin compilation fail due to error in some source image file
    o Source image file format is no longer limited to 24-bit BMP files only. Now skin compiler supports all possible bit depths for BMP format and fully supports PNG format with alpha channel
    o Added built-in bitmap effect for extracting alpha-channel from PNG image files
    o Skin format has been upgraded to v1.3. New format supports alpha channel based transparency for skinned window, allowing skin designers to define semi-transparent skin areas, apply antialiasing to the skin window edges and so on
    o Added new skinned window composition modes support and “Skin composition mode” settings to “User interface tab”. New settings allows you to use one of the following modes:
    o Traditional mode – suits best for backward compatibility with existing skins and performance testing
    o Layered mode with colorkey - provides much faster rendering of skins with non-rectangular window shape and additionally allows you to adjust transparency of skinned window
    o Layered mode with alpha – provides per-pixel alpha channel support and advanced visual effects for compatible skins and also allows you to adjust transparency of skinned window
    o Skin format reference guide has been updated to v1.7 to document these changes
    o Full skins cross-compatibility with other overclocking applications based on RivaTuner engine. Special GUI transformation layer allows you to use the skins designed for third party RivaTuner based overclocking applications and makes the process of migration to MSI Afterburner from such overclocking tools much more comfortable for you. You can keep the look and feel of your preferred overclocking application and at the same time enjoy extended MSI Afterburner’s features including full range of supported graphics cards, industry leading powerful and robust monitoring module, flexible video recording features and many more
    • RivaTuner Statistics Server has been upgraded to v6.1.3
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2014

  11. MMJ

    MMJ Member

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    I think this has already been asked but have you tried approaching MSI to see if their lawyers might assist you? if anything the bad publicity that EVGA will receive might make it worth it for them to help. I will certainly be avoiding EVGA products in the future.

    The thing that concerns me is that if you let this go unchallenged now then EVGA will be in a stronger position later on should they decide to go after you for copying aspects of 'their' program.

    As someone who has been online since the 3DFX days and seen Rivatuner evolve I'm really disgusted by what EVGA's have done.
     
  12. Mumak

    Mumak Member Guru

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    You're in a difficult situation Alex.
    They must have done that because they know you and they expected you won't bring this to a court. You gave them more than they asked for in goodwill, but there will always be people coming with certain 'innovations' based on ideas on the edge of law (= new Precision). Since you probably didn't care much about legal issues (as I don't care much too; we're from a bit similar countries), you didn't have a detailed contract for everything you have done. That would be a waste of time for you (us) and we better spend our time with our passions. There will always be some people who are not even satisfied with something they get for free and don't realize how much effort is behind it. That's life...

    Let this be a lesson to you, but don't let your passion be ruined by this.
    What the rest of folks can do who appreciate your work is to raise our voice, say EVGA that we DON'T LIKE this and boycott them.

    And btw, as I'm writing this, I just got an e-mail saying just:
    This is what makes us happy :)
     
  13. Headless Knight

    Headless Knight Active Member

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    I highly appreciate all your hard work Unwinder and your great software :) . I hope all this get sorted out for you. The only loser here is EVGA as this negatively affect their public image and may make people think twice before buying their products again.

    Give credit to whom credit is due EVGA.

    Good Luck to you.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2014
  14. bigfutus

    bigfutus Master Guru

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    Bad EVGA, bad!
     
  15. Unwinder

    Unwinder Moderator Staff Member

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    Soooo many rumors. I definitively love this one, from old good EVGA Precision user.

    I didn't know that RivaTuner was abandoned and open source project. I didn't know that me and Hilbert just picked abandoned RivaTuner sources developed by somebody else and have no relations to original application.
    I didn't know that I was just updating RivaTuner without being its author and holding any copyrights. So I probably just have to F myself like recommended :)
    LOL. Just LOL.
     

  16. Mumak

    Mumak Member Guru

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    Alex, is there a way how could I disable RTSS support for PrecisionX 15 ?
     
  17. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Sorry for invading, but I believe reality is:
    Since next version from Unwinder will have superb support for custom skinning, all eVGA has to do now is to attach their skin over it.
    Which is from my point of view all value they gave to project as they contracted to get beating heart for their skin.

    So I hope Unwinder makes some fade-in/fade-out non annoying start up overlay which would show who's moving force behind.
     
  18. Mumak

    Mumak Member Guru

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    Sorry, but I was asking something different. My HWiNFO is pushing various sensor data to RTSS OSD, so you can get more values there. Now I don't want to support the RTSS OSD of PrecisionX 15. Just need to know a reliable way how to distinguish that.
     
  19. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Is RTSS OSD started as child process of PrecisionX 15? Then you may detect that. And blacklist based on properties of parent.
    That should be safest way which would not cripple other solutions in process.
     
  20. Unwinder

    Unwinder Moderator Staff Member

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    You don't need to disable anything. EVGA's copy is identical visually but they physically couldn't replicate whole core architecture and flexibility. Your readings won't be shown in their server OSD.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2014

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