Deus EX - Low perfomance?

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce Drivers Section' started by ChaosPhoenix, Aug 24, 2016.

  1. Devilhunter12

    Devilhunter12 Banned

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    Edited.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2016
  2. Devilhunter12

    Devilhunter12 Banned

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    This is the reason why AMD is not a competition to Nvidia because AMD fans say everything is ok and not admitting the fact is the reason why AMD has not longer a competition to Nvidia.

    Just cause 3 (0.72) million Sale on PC
    http://steamspy.com/app/225540

    Rise of the Tomb Radier (0.92) million sale on PC
    http://steamspy.com/app/391220

    AMD gaming Evolve Square Enix

    Deus Ex: Mankind Divided (0.23) million sale on PC (low)
    http://steamspy.com/app/337000

    Hitman 2016 (0.24) million sale on PC (extermly low)
    http://steamspy.com/app/236870

    AMD benchmark game and most AMD hyped game

    Ashes of the Singularity (0.08) million sale on PC (flopped on PC)
    http://steamspy.com/app/228880

    Any game ,which AMD touched in 2016 is a major flop on PC with mostly negative to mix score from the users. Terrible user experience and a cancer port for PC
     
  3. VAlbomb

    VAlbomb Member Guru

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    Nice data, I wonder if the bad performance is related to Denuvo or just because they are console ports(which run AMD hardware)
    Also funny how Ashes has an average of 200 players per day and AMD still uses it as benchmark.
     
  4. Stormyandcold

    Stormyandcold Ancient Guru

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    Interesting site (steamspy). Cheers for that Devilhunter12
     

  5. Stormyandcold

    Stormyandcold Ancient Guru

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    I have no problems with Doom which also uses it. It's not the DRM.

    It's the engine it's built-on + AMD features.
     
  6. Devilhunter12

    Devilhunter12 Banned

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    No Doom also use DRM ,however, it works well every hardware and stands fair. Doom is No Gameworks or AMD evolve title.

    The problem with AMD gaming evolve is that AMD is forcing developers to use DX12, which requires time and they cannot make DX11 port right this is the reason all AMD gaming evolve in 2016 has been flopped in terms of profit, users and sales.

    Rise of the Tomb Raider and Doom were successful because they marketed their game for majority ,which 75-80% of PC market and then later 2 or 3 months of time they patched low level API.
     
  7. Carfax

    Carfax Ancient Guru

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    I can't speak for dr_rus. Personally, I don't think it's a bad port necessarily. It's more poor than bad. Like I said, lots of graphical bugs with the settings, and the asset streaming is too slow and the occlusion culling seems very spotty.

    The game is very dense. Lots of buildings have accessible interiors and ducts which go all over the place and it all loads seamlessly.. But it seems like the game is rendering more than it should at times.

    DX12 will theoretically eliminate lots of issues, including the CPU scaling problems, and asset loading.. This is assuming they do it properly and don't botch it..

    With Nixxes though, you never know. DX12 isn't for schoolboys, and whilst they did a decent job with RotTR, it took them two patches to get a handle on it. And even then, their asynchronous compute implementation wasn't that great compared to what Crystal Dynamics did with the Xbox One version.
     
  8. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

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    There it is, you found it. You spilled the secret. They have to close shop now. The competition is over. It's just that they have all the consoles and 30% of the PC market. They are done. WTF are you smoking.

    Not that the numbers will be really off, but you have to take into account that SteamSpy is a survey based on around 80-90.000 users, and has no kind of connection with any Valve service and the numbers are a statistical approximation.

    You are also comparing things that are not the same to each other. Ashes of the Singularity is basically the tech basis for the Nitrous engine, whose first "actual" title is going to be the next Star Control. The engine will be used in all further Stardock games like the next (eventual) Galactic Civ and its main sales are through GoG, which is not covered through even the approximation that Steam Spy gives. It was the project that covered their engine expenses, it barely has a single player component and it never even was a full price game.

    Hitman's issue is that it went full retard with episodic content. If any Hitman fans are reading this though, play it. It's the best Hitman game ever made, but they paid dearly for going full episodic.

    You compare these along with Deus Ex to Rise of the Tomb Raider that's out since January, and Just Cause 3 that's out since November. If you account marketing budgets and the size of the actual releases, Rise of the Tomb Raider can only be compared to DOOM and Deus Ex. Doom has sold a gazillion trillion billion copies, probably more than all the titles you put in the comparison together. Deus Ex has already sold in a week a third of what Tomb Raider sold in seven months.

    Okay I guess.

    Whatever that means for the rest of the arguments here. Because these sales figures (even if you were right) have to plug into an actual technical argument at a point, right?

    Not a single one of the games you posted can be characterized as a bad port. Not one. Do you want me to do a teraflop overlay with Hitman, Ashes and DOOM, or you'll simply ignore it like the previous ones?

    Is your definition of a "cancer port", a port that runs well on AMD? Because even dr_rus admitted that Deus Ex runs well on his system, so what's your problem exactly? That AMD cards are doing well?

    A closing note about Doom. Doom is not simply sponsored by AMD, it is the first game that supports shader intrinsic functions. It literally runs low-level GCN code. It's the most "AMD" port of them all, yet you pretend it doesn't exist.

    Nobody is "forcing" anyone to run DX11 code. You can have amazing AMD ports like Battlefront, running under DX11. Developers are sick of DX11 and the limitations it has. CDProjektRED had to design the whole new area in Blood and Wine AROUND DX11 limitations, people at DICE were wishing a year ago that all their 2016 holiday games were DX12 only.

    In the end, you really cherry pick different things like AotS vs Tomb Raider sales, you COMPLETELY ignore DOOM which is the elephant in the room, and you also ignore Deus Ex which has already sold in a week a third of what Tomb Raider has in six months.

    And on top of that, you don't even connect any of that to the quality of the technical implementations, which is the actual point of the conversation.
     
  9. Devilhunter12

    Devilhunter12 Banned

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    All developers has said that Steamspy data are very accurate. It just takes 2 or 3 mins of times too research (Google) before making to many inaccurate assumptions.
    What? Doom sale did not get any benefit from Vulkan. You are person ,which ignore facts just like AMD PR.

    Rise of tomb Raider sold 0.25 million on the first day of launch.
    Doom sold 0.87 million before vulkan patch arrived and on steam when it was patched for Vulkan it was already 50% off ,moreover, right now you can get this game for $20 on PC via gamestop.

    However, doom is not gaming evolve title, or gameworks title. It is Open GL and 2 to 3 months later Vulkan patched. That is why i said you are person with double standards due to that you are deliberately ignoring that it launched with Open GL and after 2 months vulkan was patched ,which did not improve sales at all.

    The thing what AMD hurt is most is that their PR and their fans always live in fantasy world. . Dues EX mankind Divided on PC wont even go beyond 0.4 million sale on PC due that for majority it is a turd port.

    Look at the history of best selling games on PC and how it performed on Nvidia .

    2015-2016 Sales on PC.

    Why game like Witcher 3, GTA V, MSG V, Fallout 4, Dying light, Shadow of Mordor, The Division and Rise of the Tomb Raider was had excellent sale on PC is because they target Majority not minority. If you target minority then sales will be like Ashes of the Singularity, Dues Ex and Hitman and it is very simple logic with very simple common sense.

    This is the reason why AMD lost their R&D budget, loss sales and lost customer. Market share is the backbone for PC gaming and without it you are just dead.

    Again you need to learn to read. I said AMD gaming evolve 2016. All AMD gaming evolve in 2016 , which are released is at the level of 2010 graphics with recommended of Fury X to run same as PS4.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2016
  10. Stormyandcold

    Stormyandcold Ancient Guru

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    Devilhunter12; I actually went through some of my games collection to see the sales numbers and some are really impressive.

    Even Dying Light (I have full everything version), which I thought was a niche product did really well. Some of those we're talking 3-4million+ sales. I have none of those games in post 62. However, I have every game in above post 69, except The Division which didn't interest me (no Tomb Raider either).

    PrMinisterGR; I was an alpha and beta tester of Doom and I bought it pre-release. I think most people bought Doom regardless of Vulkan, I certainly wouldn't count Doom as an AMD game, not at all, regardless of "love" id put into AMD support.

    Most Nvidia users would've bought it knowing Nvidia's OpenGL is excellent (which on release it certainly was and still is). I also recall the controversy and accusations of Nvidia paying off id so Nvidia could use a higher level of OpenGL, when infact, it wasn't the case and came down to AMD drivers not fully implementing 4.5. Big backlash against id from AMD users until Vulkan came.
     

  11. Devilhunter12

    Devilhunter12 Banned

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    I give one example that how much AMD gaming evolve is broken.

    You compare a broken Game Works Batman Arkhan Knight sales with Hitman 2016, Ashes of the Singularity and Deus Ex mankind Divided and you combine these 3 gaming evolve title and compare with a totally broken gameworks game. If you combine 3 gaming evolve sales on PC it still cannot beat a disastrous Batman Arkham Knight on PC sales.
     
  12. dr_rus

    dr_rus Ancient Guru

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    My card is coping fine, way better than whatever "better" AMD h/w is there on the market -)

    This is where I'll end this conversation b/c as I've already said you're so biased that you simply can't see the data even when it's presented to you, never mind looking for the data yourself. A game is running more or less fine with AMD's effects disabled (CHS and TAO are AMD's effects added to a console game, didn't you know?) but tanks on NV h/w with them enabled. This is the bad optimization for you. Take a look.

    That fact that your brain can't understand the things I've said doesn't make them nonsensical. Think about that.
     
  13. millibyte

    millibyte Maha Guru

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    I think that has a lot to do with it. I was called delusional in another thread by suggesting that it's *possible* that in more upcoming titles, RX 480 would sit between 1060 and 1070 and that Fury X would sit between 1070 and 1080. After all, when you pay an arm and a leg for a piece of hardware, it's a blow to e-peen when a card that costs less comes close or even *gasp* surpasses it.
     
  14. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

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    Since big posts make no sense at this point (I have said what I have to say), just two snippets.

    A) Connecting the dots between supposedly "good" NVIDIA ports, "bad" AMD ports and sales on the PC, doesn't make any sense. There have been a ton of turdports from NVIDIA ("Gamewrecks" anyone?), that hasn't hurt their HW sales. One is not relevant to the other. Even if it is, with very few exceptions GameWorks titles are generally seen as bad ports (even if a lot of them are not).

    B) dr_rus, that first paragraph seriously made no sense. You also need to differentiate between a broken effect, and a bad implementation. We are full of bad implementations, but (and it's subjective) CHS on GTA V for example, is the best looking shadows to me. So, is in the end the issue that CHS is broken? Or that the 390x is creeping up where it's tflop say it should have been anyway?

    In the end, engines are going the GCN way. They will favor that even if NVIDIA has a more elegant (but much more finicky) approach to rendering. But because of the way the cards are made, you'll simply see AMD cards going up mostly, not NVIDIA cards going down. If you have a problem with that, it's an issue not to be solved in a tech forum guys.
     
  15. TheRealKaldaien

    TheRealKaldaien Member

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    It's not as wrong as you think.

    The lighting model's completely different than most games. Physically Based Rendering isn't cheap, and this game uses it. Lighting bounces rather than hitting a surface once and that being the end of the story.

    Be prepared for a lot more of this sort of thing in the coming years. The push is for lighting accuracy now rather than cramming as many triangles through the pipeline as the hardware will take. That means games will be more compute limited and AMD's long had an upperhand in that department.


    That said, minor framerate hiccups in places like Prague at night are due in part to texture streaming. I have a mod on the Steam forums that implements texture memory caching and a few framepacing tweaks for Windows 8+ users. It may help you a little bit, but don't expect framerate to jump up, just frametime consistency to improve.
     

  16. Monchis

    Monchis Maha Guru

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    If consoles can use pbr, then it´s cheap enough... problem is that as new more powerful cards get released, some devs get lazier and lazier. You know, we are kinda of lucky that processors ipc has barely improved recently or else an overclocked 5ghz 2500k would be crawling for it´s life by now, only because of dev laziness.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2016
  17. Dburgo

    Dburgo Guest

    The lighting isnt what is slowing this game down. It's the LOD that is killing everyone. Don't believe me? Try this. Turn on that attribute that does additional LOD for shadows with LOD maxed. Benchmark. Now, leaving that enabled, go and change the LOD to a lower amount. Your results may surprise you. This is what is slowing everything down mostly. Yes just because the effects are new, doesnt mean that we should experience the taxing amount of fps loss we currently are experiencing. IMHO, the game needs further optimization, as yes the poly count is there, but the LOD (especially considering the textures used) are not working efficiently. I can play Project Cars 50 fps+ @ 6K resolution (which almost looks very real) and the effects of reflection, shadowing, sound and lighting on that game surpass and exceed the garbage we are seeing from Square in this game. Albeit there probably isnt as many poly's needed in comparison. Whatever the case is, graphic cards are not in the time/place where they can crank out garbage like this easily, and thus the reason for optimizing the game and me declaring bad programming, as the planning of render to visual display could have been much better. That all being said, the game play mechanics of this game and action/realism is completely unparalleled to anything else I have played in a long time. Visually it looks great and I am playing 1440p with most bells and whistles on@ 50 -87 fps. But know this, I guarantee, if this was a Final Fantasy Game, this would not be an issue because we would have seen much more polish, functionality, and more graphical attribute control to achieve performance than what we can tinker with compared to its current state, and turning the settings down, would probably still result in a great looking game... It's disappointing Square/Enix half crippled this franchise and game for us on the PC. Then again, what should we expect looking at the sales results..
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 28, 2016
  18. Monchis

    Monchis Maha Guru

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    Lods must be exposing problem, I´ve read that when gfx stuff is unoptimized, "painting" more elements on screen tanks performance by a factor. That must be why you need several times gtx660 power, which has been proven to be 50/80% faster than the ps4 (in the good ports).
     
  19. Dburgo

    Dburgo Guest

    I certainly think so. Plus some other mechanics in the game are a needed addition to state of the art gaming, such as npc facial expression, and being able inflict damage realistically, (I actually shot off one of those guys golden masks off their face at the helicopter on the first level) and he looked surprised, then angry enough to come kill me) so I do agree the game to me does push the envelope, but the LOD isn't ready for anything with less than 12GB of vmem and a ridiculous CPU GPU combo. This is worse than the crysis games! I wish this game graphically was done by the makers of Serious Sam, but keeps Squares game mechanics (such as the similar to Gears of War stealthing behind objects and firefighting) and we would have had the perfect game of blending a world similar to HL2/Mass Effect/COD.
     
  20. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

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    PBR has been used in a ton of games, since before AC:Unity even. Almost all AAA titles the last two years almost have a form of PBR implemented.
     

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