Delidded Core i7 7700K runs 26 Degrees C cooler

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Dec 16, 2016.

  1. user1

    user1 Ancient Guru

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    "Intel Introduces patented Mayonnaise based TIM"

    Q:So what prompted this change?

    A:We found that the usage of mayo greatly Improved the profitability of our cpus while maintaining adequate thermal performance.
     
  2. dean469

    dean469 Member Guru

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    This would be my guess also.
     
  3. coth

    coth Master Guru

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    My 2500K was running with passive Corsair H70 for a few years. It was 45-50C in idle and 60C in load.
     
  4. LevelSteam

    LevelSteam Active Member

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    I really hope Zen puts AMD back in direct competition with Intel again. This is just getting silly.
     

  5. Enticles

    Enticles Master Guru

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    I know it is pure speculation, but i would like to believe that Intel has been at least tinkering with their TIM compounds since their TIM and IHS combi has been questioned by the community with Ivy Bridge. To go from a ~5c reduction in temps to a ~26c reduction with Kaby is just plain crazy.

    If these results weren't fabricated, they should at least delid another Kaby CPU and see if the results with the second CPU are in line with the first. Others have suggested the amount of TIM being the issue, if that is the case it will be the same across the board - considering the automated manufacturing processes they use.
     
  6. stereoman

    stereoman Master Guru

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    Every chip's different 26 degree drop after delid is massive tho, I saw an average of 13 degree difference after delidding my 4790k which was enough to run 4.8ghz 24/7 so it's definitely worth the trouble but it's a shame to have to resort to this and the fact that it voids the warranty as well.

    you can see my results here http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=409984
     
  7. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

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    Thanks for the clarification man.


    As for the subject itself: CPUs are literally the cheapest high performance hardware made. They are literally just the unit and it's connections to each socket. Intel cheapening out on SOLDER of all things, is inexcusable.

    It reminds me of the conversation I had with eclap in the Zen thread. The Intel that made Core 2 and Sandy is not the same Intel of the last 3-5 years.
     
  8. GeniusPr0

    GeniusPr0 Maha Guru

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    Broadwell e is awesome. I load at 30c with H105 fans running around 1300rpm.

    These cpus are best used in a mobile space I guess since they come without IHS.
     
  9. Neo Cyrus

    Neo Cyrus Ancient Guru

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    Do you think it'd be worth the hassle of de-liding in my case? My 4770K absolutely maxes out at 4.5GHz, nothing I do can push it further, and I actually underclocked it down to 4.3GHz, since whatever my settings for 4.5GHz were, it was hitting as high as the 80s, 90C in stress tests.

    The thing is, even without temperature problems, it takes a massive amount of voltage compared to any review sample. Turns out Intel sent cherry picked 4770Ks to all reviewers, the real retail samples almost all ended up like mine based on everything I've seen. I've seen a lot of people report not being able to get past 4.2GHz, meanwhile every review I saw hit 4.8GHz+ with far lower voltage.

    At 4.3GHz with whatever my crazy voltage setting is (haven't optimized it, it's overkill right now) my temps are tame, I don't think it ever hits any higher than 60C in any real-world stress scenario.
     
  10. waltc3

    waltc3 Maha Guru

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    If merely delidding the cpu would effect this kind of a massive temp change to the better--it wouldn't make sense for Intel (or AMD) to sell such a cpu in the customary lidded form factor. Interesting though...have to be other factors involved, I'd bet.
     

  11. cyclone3d

    cyclone3d Master Guru

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    The way IHSes came into being is because people were damaging the CPUs too easily.

    Intel and AMD both used to sell desktop CPUs that had no IHS.

    Intel did during their Pentium III line.

    AMD did it on their Athlon/Duron and AthlonXP lines.

    All laptop CPUs still have no IHS because the IHS is just another layer of TIM and metal that the heat has to go through before it gets to the heatsink base.

    Not having an IHS makes for much better temps unless the IHS is soldered to the CPU core... and even then, lapping the IHS to make it flat helps a bit.
     
  12. thatguy91

    thatguy91 Ancient Guru

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    I don't think so. Wouldn't existing customers feel completely jibbed that the only difference between their 'crappy' Intel CPU and the new model that can go faster is using cheap TIM, for the purpose of deliberately hindering performance? In response to Zen they could well do it with Coffee Lake, however that is somewhat doubtful. The issue would be that it devalues their Socket 2011 processors. Intel would have to decide whether to go back to using solder for better competition and lose Socket 2011 sales, or whether to keep the status quo and compete on brand name merits.

    It's true Intel will probably use a chunk of market share to AMD, but there are a whole lot of Intel fanbois' who would buy Intel even if they release a turd sandwich. There are also a whole lot of consumers who would only buy Intel because of the brand name, and likewise businesses.

    So, the outcome of Intel using proper TIM is faster clocks and a more competitive CPU, however the downside is devaluation of their 'Extreme' range that no doubt has a comparatively huge profit margin. If that devaluation is too much, and the cost of the Extreme processors remain high in comparison to Zen, the likely outcome of using proper TIM is the phasing out of the Socket 2011 range. It won't happen straight away, it would just mean you would unlikely see an Ice Lake Socket 2011 processor. From a marketing point of view, if Intel were to do this they'd say something along the lines of streamlining their processor offerings whilst still offering consumers a wide range of performance options at every price point.

    Alternatively they'll keep the Socket 2011 range, but only offer them with high core counts with a corresponding high price. They'd keep it in check when compared to Naples though :).

    So, Zen 8-core is in a way, going up against the i7-7700K, not the Extreme processors. If you want to do that, you could buy a Naples based CPU. True, that is targetting the server market, but I'm sure someone on this forum would go for a dual Naples setup :), and at least some single Naples setups.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2016
  13. Gaidax

    Gaidax Active Member

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    To be honest, I do not understand how this even should be a thing, they spend billions on optimizing this **** only to have some dude pop the top and use some better, smarter placed paste there slashing temps?

    I mean really? It does not matter if it's 20 degrees, 10 degrees or even 5 degrees, it simply should not be the thing!
     
  14. Amx85

    Amx85 Master Guru

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    Intel TIM sometimes is trash...

    Remenber Haswell before "Refresh" had higher temps than Vishera lol

    I hope Zen be great overclocker but i will use stock clocks for 24/7
     
  15. HeavyHemi

    HeavyHemi Ancient Guru

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    I'd have to see more than one example and more rigorous testing. The only thing that kind of stood out was the TIM seemed to be a pretty thick layer between the die and lid.


    Yes they spend all that money optimizing the product for the most profit. For consumer use, the vast majority would not care or know about this. It's a niche concern. However the niche does make a lot of noise, which is good and sometimes leads to a better product.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2016

  16. Elder III

    Elder III Ancient Guru

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    That's a pretty drastic difference.... I'd like to see if this can be replicated with other units to see if that particular cpu was a dud or if something's not being reported accurately here. I don't suppose Intel would let HH delid their review sample sometime early next year? :nerd:
     
  17. icedman

    icedman Maha Guru

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    ^would be funny if we found out the review sample was soldered, I could totally see that lol.
     
  18. pegasus1

    pegasus1 Maha Guru

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    Not really comparing apples with apples by using different coolers.

    However Intel did go through a phase of concave heatspreaders so the temps of a stock chip can be improved on.
     
  19. TheDeeGee

    TheDeeGee Ancient Guru

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    So what did Intel use? Toothpaste?
     
  20. pegasus1

    pegasus1 Maha Guru

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    Google Toothpaste for TIM, its works, just dries out, but is minty fresh.
     

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