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Discussion in 'General Hardware' started by heymzey, Jan 30, 2012.

  1. heymzey

    heymzey Guest

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  2. Anarion

    Anarion Ancient Guru

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    I do not think that it will happen any time soon. 120Hz VA panels will most likely arrive before IPS.
     
  3. Death_Lord

    Death_Lord Master Guru

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    Yeah, but even if they make 120hz VA, I doupt it will get rid of the Ghosting from Black to White images.
     
  4. Xeon XT

    Xeon XT Member Guru

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    Go for IPS

    I've used all sorts of monitors in the work I do (ISP, TN, TN 3D and various VA monitors) and I would go an IPS 60Hz over a TN 120Hz any day. Colours on the IPS are WAY better than the TN side by side.

    Unless you want 3D, don't go 120Hz. And regarding the smoothness, you won't notice the difference when playing games 60 FPS+, which I see you won't have a problem with cuz you have a GTX 580. The loss of image quality is not worth minor smoothness increase.
     

  5. Agent-A01

    Agent-A01 Ancient Guru

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    Speak when you have experience, not when you have your incorrect assumptions. There is a huge difference between 120hz and 60hz.
     
  6. UZ7

    UZ7 Ancient Guru

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    If you have a good enough GPU don't let it go to waste by vsyncing it. IPS are really nice but 120Hz monitors are super smooth. Even if you can only produce 80-90+FPS its still nice even under desktop situations. Friend of mine was calling BS and was swearing to me that IPS (owned one) was the best then they saw the difference with 120Hz and they admitted they were amazed and you don't necessarily have to associate 120Hz with 3D, it is capable of 3D but you don't have to use it. If you can see a difference between 30fps and 60fps, you will definitely have the same feeling going from 60 to 120, its just an experience thing, you have to see it to believe it (real 120Hz monitor not TV).
     
  7. UZ7

    UZ7 Ancient Guru

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    I think that all depends on if you buy a low brand one vs a higher quality brand one, same goes with any other panel. IPS panels look good anywhere you look at it but say you have a S27A950D it has a really wide range of view, i mean im not gonna look at the monitor all the way to the side. If you're playing a fast pace game or any game for the matter, I dont think you'll stay long enough to glare at the image quality and I don't know where people are getting that it has bad IQ though IPS is ideal for photography/picture editing/photoshop etc.. and 120Hz can be associated with fps games that high refresh rate benefit from.
     
  8. UZ7

    UZ7 Ancient Guru

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    I would recommend 120Hz monitor if you play a lot of fast paced games, like say racing games, simulators and FPS. IPS does have better colors and you can view it at any angle. Another drawback of 120Hz monitors is you need a GPU capable of producing those frame rates and also if the game engine can support it as some are coded for 30/60fps etc... IPS for regular gaming/regular use/photography/editing, 120Hz for fast pace games.
     
  9. Sever

    Sever Ancient Guru

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    i'll back IPS here.

    ive had a 37inch panasonic IPS panel TV as my pc's display for a year and half now. it hasnt stopped me from scoring in the top three of online hardcore COD matches. the size of the display has probably helped with identifying far away opponents. the colour depth is also quite awesome and the size helps with immersion.

    that being said, its not as smooth as most 120hz displays (although i can run motionpro to interpolate to 120hz). it is a notable difference if youre good at seeing high speed motions. the only real issue is that to run 3d or 120hz, you will need an SLI/crossfire setup in a lot of the newer games. crossfire and SLI, whilst they have matured, still have their flaws. when i buy a game, i generally prefer to be able to play it straight away, rather than having to wait a month or so for an SLI/crossfire profile to be released (was annoying when i had a 5850x2 setup a while back), so im avoiding SLI/crossfire until it matures a bit more. so since i prefer a single GPU setup, i'll stick with a 60hz panel.
     
  10. Xeon XT

    Xeon XT Member Guru

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    Did you not read what I said? I work with all types of monitors everyday and I've tried a 120Hz (Samsung AS950) and an IPS display (DELL U3011) side-by-side, using 7970s on top of that. Therefore I AM speaking from experience and was giving my OPINION based on my experience so don't go accusing others of assuming when you yourself jump to conclusions without facing facts.

    To the OP, just so you don't get confused, my bottom line was I don't think the smoothness increase is worth the IQ loss. Take that for what it's worth. The only way you'll know what to get is if you go try them out somewhere like at a friend's place or a local shop.
     

  11. Agent-A01

    Agent-A01 Ancient Guru

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    First off, you said nothing about 120HZ monitors that you tested, only the difference panel types. Secondly, no such thing as a Samsung AS950, but there is a A950 which is a 46in TV that isnt a true 120hz screen. Just a 60hz that uses frame interpolation. How about you try a real 120hz Monitor, not a gimmick tv.

    Maybe you are mixing model number up idk, but if you are, you most likely saw a gen 1 120hz monitor; there's a huge difference between gen 1 and gen 2 monitors. Heres a good 120hz monitor, not a huge difference from my IPS and this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009222
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2012
  12. Xeon XT

    Xeon XT Member Guru

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  13. scheherazade

    scheherazade Ancient Guru

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    The problem with TN is narrow viewing angle.
    As your head moves off-center from the display, the colors become distorted.
    The best image quality is directly in front, line-of-sight at a right angle to the panel surface.

    If you're the only user, and you're sitting in front of the monitor, then TN is OK.

    Very large monitors that use TN will have some color/contrast distortion around the edges.
    This is because the angle from your eyes to the panel (@ the edge of the panel) is becoming far from 90 degrees.

    In general, a good quality TN, like the Samsung S**A950, has full RGB color spectrum, and when viewed on-center will compete rather well with IPS.

    Most likely, if you are concerned about color, and want 120hz, the S**A950 is your best bet.
    Good contrast [and black level] matters too, maybe even more (personally, I prefer good contrast and OK color, versus good color and OK contrast). VG236H (after adjustment) does well in that regard.




    120hz IPS has done OK in HDTVs, where 120hz is mostly used for smooth 2D.
    For 2D, having ghosting in between frames is not a big deal, as [at 120hz] the image has barely changed between frames anyways.

    For 3D, ghosting is a problem. The image changes dramatically between frames, going between left/right viewpoints. It means your left eye sees a ghost image of what the right eye saw, and vice versa. It hurts the 3D experience.

    3D TVs can be rather expensive, making more exotic implementations of IPS that deal better with ghosting budgetable. Also, the way they solve it is usually with aggressive overdrive. With laggy pixels, you need to start volting them for the next image, while you're wrapping up drawing the current image. To do so, you need to know what the next image is. In order to know, you have to delay drawing images, until you get the next image(s). This is buffering. This means a lot of input lag - something you don't want in a monitor.

    3D Monitors are in a "situation"...
    - 3D Monitors historically have been marketed at a lower price point than 3D TVs.
    - TN is cheaper than IPS, hence more appropriate in a 'cheap [compared to 3D TV]' display.
    ...
    - Monitors in general lean towards precision over color (TVs lean towards color over precision).
    - TN has less ghosting [than 'cheap' IPS], more accurately representing the current frame at any given time.

    People are accustomed to "cheap" 3D monitors (TN, currently).
    IPS monitors are already expensive (generally, more expensive than 120hz TN).
    A 120hz IPS would likely have a price tag that conjures "omg cat".

    My suspicion is that in 5 years, OLED (looking at LG's 55" oled for $8k usd) will be more common, and prices will fall, and it will start to replace LCD tech in general - maybe before 120hz I/O IPS even has a chance to gain much [monitor] market share.

    -scheherazade
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2012
  14. LinkDrive

    LinkDrive Ancient Guru

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    The difference in color vibrancy and viewing angle isn't enough for me to consider an IPS panel for the prices they're being sold at. Viewing angle aside, you can get a TN that has very nice IQ that can substitute an IPS, and lets not forget the fact we can control color vibrancy with CCC/NVCP. As photo editor, video editor, and gamer, I'd rather spend the money on a decent 120Hz monitor for the extra smoothness and precision over a slight benefit in brightness/contrast and color vibrancy.
     
  15. nutyo

    nutyo Ancient Guru

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    There is a very noticeable difference in IQ between IPS and TN. And you can't (and shouldn't) correct via the stupid colour vibrancy/ saturation in the video card's control panel.

    However the thing is that if you go with the TN you aren't going to have an IPS monitor sitting next to it to compare to. You will get used to the TN panel and apart from viewing angles there won't be anything noticeably wrong with the colours.

    For that reason I would say go with the 120hz TN. The dream would be for a 16:10 120hz OLED display though. *drool*
     

  16. Veteran

    Veteran Ancient Guru

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    Dell are working on one right now.
     
  17. LinkDrive

    LinkDrive Ancient Guru

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    As long as you're going to give ballpark statements, yes, there's a big difference in quality between the two. However, if you look more towards the high end TN panels, I think you'll be surprised at the quality they provide compared to an IPS. Regardless, I'm interested in hearing you elaborate on your opinion behind why we shouldn't tweak the color settings in our control panels.
     
  18. TruMutton_200Hz

    TruMutton_200Hz Ancient Guru

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  19. Xeon XT

    Xeon XT Member Guru

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    I completely agree with Shehrazade. The SA950 has decent colours for a TN display but like he said, viewing angles give most TN display an uneven color (close the to the edges because you aren't looking at the pixels at 90 degrees). I'd like to add that I personally find the colours on a TN monitor washed out compared to an IPS display, the SA950 is no exception to this statement. (I'm looking at it right now lol)

    You won't use HDMI for 120Hz due to the bandwidth limitation of HDMI, you need to connect through the Dual-Link DVI port (all video cards come with Dual-Link DVI these days... unless it's ultra low end) or the DisplayPort port which the SA950 has. And yes, you should be able to get the same performance with the 750D, just no DVI port which is something you'll want if you don't have DP to take advantage of the 120Hz.

    If you want something cheaper than an IPS monitor, I suggest you looking into a VA type of display, the colour reproduction is almost on par with IPS displays (not better) but the response times are typically faster (I could be wrong with current models, someone please correct me if I'm wrong). Also VA type displays have the same viewing angles as an IPS (178 degrees). I hope I haven't confused you by adding VA displays into the mix but I'm just letting you know what's out there.
    I have a S-PVA monitor at home which is very comparable to the IPS displays I use at work in terms of IQ but it did retail for $1000 when I bought it :p
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2012
  20. Neo Cyrus

    Neo Cyrus Ancient Guru

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    I have to agree with him. Even though colours can look good on a TN they are not accurate. So if accurate colours and a FAR superior viewing angle (colours can invert on a TN) are important to you I'd recommend an IPS unless you really want 3D. Even then remember maintaining 120fps in a modern game is really not possible with a single card, not with the game maxed out anyway.

    My last panel was a "high end" 23" TN and the colours on the corners were always wrong due to the extremely minor angle they are at.

    Keep in mind that the matte finish that most Dell IPS panels have is EXTREMELY annoying, it annoys the hell out of me. Side by side next to a TN the TN doesn't look so bad because the matte finish is like coating your panel with glue and sand. It's like a free layer of aliasing.

    Sure after adjusting to it, I think always having a proper view of the screen (colours/angle) is worth putting up with the matte finish but it was annoying as hell to begin with.
     

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