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December 4 Battlefield V Raytracing DXR performance patch released (benchmarks)

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Dec 5, 2018.

  1. XenthorX

    XenthorX Ancient Guru

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    You say fake, i call it optimized. Using proxy geo. is standard in real-time rendering, being for GI precomputation/real-time computation/soft shadowing/collision detection...
    I don't know why you're so negative regarding this tech, i do find it's a huge step forward making a lot of progress in a rather short time, it's awesome.

    It's looking gorgeous and you clearly can't reproduce those results with screen-space rendering and planar-reflections.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018 at 7:53 AM
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  2. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    Hopefully it is downgraded, more PC games need to be downgraded.

    It's not how it was in the past, people don't want their expensive hardware to be pushed and care more about brand loyalty and confirmation bias.
     
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  3. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Or Unity.
     
  4. Maddness

    Maddness Master Guru

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    I really miss the days of games like Crysis that really push the envelope with brand new features. I totally get the argument about the price off these cards. It really is over the top. But we should be embracing this new technology. I can't for the life off me understand all the negativity towards Ray Tracing and DLSS. And this is coming from someone who runs an RX480. I personally can't wait for AMD to get onboard. Lisa Sue has already acknowledged that they will.
     

  5. holler

    holler Member Guru

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    they should have added the variable rate DXR settings and kept the standard alone.its engineered with this "performance" patch so you can't really compare easily. very tricky Nvidia!
     
  6. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    DLSS is good. It does what is advertised. (nVidia's tech which actually works)
    Here in BF5 you have DXR (so called) raytracing. But it kind of ignores some objects and shows geometry behind them as if they were never there. Light shine through objects which are present. And other mishaps which would not happen to real raytracing. (Probably bad implementation of something MS did not design properly.)
     
  7. XenthorX

    XenthorX Ancient Guru

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    As an Indie Game Dev working with Unreal Engine daily i'm perfectly aware of planar reflections that i mentionned in my initial answer, it does take a lot of performance on its own and only work on perflecty flat surface, like large oceans.
    This is miles away from the raytraced solution we're seeing here, which is trully impressive a true step forward for real time rendering.

    Realtime reflection probes from Unity/CryEngine is a cool options which also comes with drawbacks on their own (not movable, low resolution, large texture-space cost scaling with numbers of probes used)

     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018 at 11:15 PM
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  8. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    I don't understand the negativity, for something so new it's at a much more advanced stage than any sane person should expect.

    If this was game number 20, then fair enough but come on...

    I don't just think it the full time complainers though, high refresh rate gaming is now the new PC norm. That is something that could really hinder PC gaming graphics in the long term.
     
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  9. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    FYI, IQ of reflections in your BF5 video is worse than those in current UE/Unity. And difference is painfully obvious even when you render it at much higher resolution. (And as you stated, it supposedly increases IQ proportionally.)
    And one can't blame TAA for that difference. (Btw, how does TAA affect performance?). It may blur entire scene a bit, but those reflections have several magnitudes lower resolution.
     
  10. nizzen

    nizzen Master Guru

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    Do you have an RTX 2080/2080ti?

    You have like 7867 negative/toxic posts in this forum, and counting... Why? :p
     
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  11. tensai28

    tensai28 Maha Guru

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    We don't actually know that for sure last time I checked. I'm pretty sure there's a little bit more to it. Switching to 1440p on my screen already upscales to 2160p so I'm not sure what dlss would do differently if it really was that simple.
     
  12. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Because you are mentally unstable person who compensates for something with HW and therefore you see all my posts as negative/toxic. That's due to you having trouble to make distinction between software implementation running on HW (currently only RTX) and hardware itself.

    Sad part is weak minded view of yours where you put RTX 2080/2080ti into spotlight and try to present it as some kind of hate object of mine.
    In reality, you could have seen that I do not put hate towards RTX, quite contrary:
    And you clearly ignore that I am highlighting problems/overrides/hacks in BF5's so called "raytraced" reflections via DXR (Microsoft) which is HW agnostic implementation.

    As of negativity, here you have some (since above is objectivity):
    RTX 2080Ti has 18.6 Billion transistors, and delivers 'playable' performance on 1080p with DXR-reflections while delivering competitive image quality with already existing technologies. But it does it on lower fps than 11.8 Billion transistor GTX 1080Ti. And on top of it, those DXR reflections need hacks/overrides (just different ones than older reflection technologies) and still have problems (just different ones). That's exactly opposite of what raytracing should deliver.

    It is like trading saw with few broken teeth on sides for "new" one while paying 50% extra price of new one (extra quality promise). And then finding out that it has broken teeth in the middle.

    Not negative enough? Do you know when DXR starts to be really usable? When you have ~40B transistor GPUs available at low enough price to be called mainstream.
    DXR is not technology to die and be forgotten. It is technology from which industry should learn and not repeat same mistakes.
     
  13. GREGIX

    GREGIX Master Guru

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    Still no go for me. Additional RT cores so it should be running same speed with rt enabled.
    Anybody tested power usage b4 and after?
     
  14. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    It does not really matter if DLSS is upscaled or not. It is technology to replace TAA. As such, it does have same benefit of removing shimmering.
    But DLSS does that without blurring things as much (objectively higher IQ) and delivering higher fps as well.
     
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  15. tensai28

    tensai28 Maha Guru

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    It's just too bad it's taking games so long to use it. Would really like to try it out.
     

  16. HeavyHemi

    HeavyHemi Ancient Guru

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    Surely you are not implying that the 2080 Ti has the SAME or WORSE performance as the 1080 Ti. You're using a singular outlier game to mis-characterize that it has markedly superior performance in every other game out there. Now, whether it is worth the cost due to the added tensor and RTX cores, is subjective as is most of your post...despite how strong your beliefs are.
     
  17. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Good try. But it's time to stop misrepresenting statements. (I get that mine was not fool-proof, but a bit of logic was enough to realize situation):
    2080Ti + DXR reflections
    1080Ti + standard SSR (Not like anyone with speck of sand for brain would expect that I would write about DXR performance on 1080Ti.)

    Funny thing is that people w/o actual knowledge eat that BF5 visuals. But that engine had one of worst reflection systems to begin with, so even DXR looks reasonably good in comparison. (except for the performance hit in relation to actual change in IQ)
    I get that they wanted to make "WOW", but I think that they should have started with other effects applicable to DXR (general lighting/shadows of scene).
     
  18. Exodite

    Exodite Ancient Guru

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    I think the fact the performance numbers comparison we've seen has been against TAA only, and opposed to native performance, is telling. Post-process AA like TAA is very light on performance compared to MSAA or SSAA, and as DLSS claims double-digit performance increases over TAA it's unlikely to be running native.

    Essentially my argument is this; if DLSS offers better performance than native resolution without TAA it can't be running at native resolution. You can't get better performance than the baseline without giving something up, or put another way DLSS can't cost less than 0% performance.
     
  19. Glottiz

    Glottiz Master Guru

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    Upscaling that TVs do is rather basic, but you can't expect miracles, when most TVs are cheaper than high end GPUs. DLSS is supposed to be a much more robust upscaler.
     
  20. tensai28

    tensai28 Maha Guru

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    Maybe you guys are right, maybe not. I personally don't want to draw any conclusions about it until it is realeased to the public and I can see it in action. That being said, it really can't come soon enough.
     
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