Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Dec 5, 2018.
Yup, exactly what I said earlier, while others stated "naah its code optimizations" -
The fantastic result of the developers & Nvidia's effort is regardless of what setting is used with DXR, the visuals are still "heads & tails" above the plain Jane DX 12 visuals.
Hope everyone with a capable ray tracing card is enjoying the RTX visual experience.
No one who is serious about multiplayer is using RTX that cuts their framerate in half. In the heat of the action you don't notice the difference between RTX on/off, but you notice low framerate all the time!
Here in the UK there are cheaper 1080Ti models at about £450+ / $574+, but decent ones with good coolers (I was personally after a model whose fans stop when idle for longer life) or water cooling blocks sell for £550 - £650+ / $701 - $829+ and some even more for good watercooled ones. This is for second hand used 1080Ti cards.
I tried buying second hand, I was trying to get a good deal, so these prices are at the lower end of the 2nd hand market in the UK & these cards often sell for more:
- 1080Ti Asus ROG Strixx -- £432 / $551 (guy never sent it + stopped communicating, reported him to the police + paypal eventually returned my money)
- 1080Ti Gigabyte Aorus, low use refurbished from 30k ebayer 99.4% -- £539 / $688 (turned up with perhaps a years worth of usage dust still on it + unstable in 4K gaming, he accepted return)
For the 2080 I was looking at new, which are often bundled with a good amount of bonus stuff. Cost about £590 / $752 after removing freebies value.
Second hand almost new 2080 sell for maybe £30 less than a brand new one with all the freebies so not worth it.
Lol.. You said you doubted there was any code optimizations so I purposely quoted the article in sections. The code optimization section contained all the changes they are making that shouldn't necessarily impact image quality. The bugfixing sections talk about LOD changes that would obviously impact image quality. In the video he talks about the changes they made to the underlining code to optimize performance including a variable RT system which the DICE engineer didn't even mention.. the only downgrade that he even notices stems from the hybrid march system culling some of the particles out and rendering them as screen space. Which I talked about in this thread potentially happening:
You and the video also neglect to mention the quality gain in the fact that the grass is now being reflected in the water in the scene where he talks about the SS artifacts - the artifacting btw is why is the reason for them changing the particle emitters to avoid reflective surfaces - which hurts more without RT then with.
People need to stop pretending like every argument is binary. DICE made multiple code and logic changes to optimize performance along with bugfixes/tweaking that changed image quality, in some ways worse in other ways better. The larger point being that 90% of the changes were code optimization and not simply "removing things".
TIL: 20-25% performance improvement is "trivial"
The snow level barely even has reflective surfaces so obviously the gains are less there. Also when they test two maps and you summarize one of two of those maps as "outside the autumn level" it's a fair bit misleading.
Not everyone with a 1440p monitor bought a high refresh one so being able to hit 60Hz with RT on is great. Also for many it is One or the Other when it comes to a high end screen or GPU at that point in time, so with RTX may well buy the card so they can use and enjoy RT at 60fps on their budget monitor.
A good game will take advantage of reflections in water under a truck to spot an enemy , something DX12 rendering techniques cannot show due to the way it fakes reflections for example.
Such things are actually a Hugely better advantage than higher fps above 60Hz...
EDIT: some are even describing the advantage for those with RT Vs those without being almost akin to being as big as a cheat for multiplayer.
What's the point? Suffering? Dips to 45fps. Textures with resolution low enough to look same @1080p. Faketraced reflections blurry to point that even on 720p they would look same.
You may call it playable, but it is unreasonable to play under those conditions. When people check their settings between high and ultra and realize that there is no difference in IQ but big difference in fps, they have no problem to use High details instead of Ultra.
Youa re not rendering on native resolution anyway, so why not to go to 1440p or 4K@70%. Those fps drops and stutter would go away. And IQ outside of object edges would not suffer.
Nitpick my comment all you want, overall I'm correct in my assumption.
Hilbert is there any chance you could test in ultrawide 3440x1440..??
I don't play multiplayer so I'd notice RTX On/Off all the time. If I were playing multiplayer I wouldn't notice any cuts in framerate unless I were actively watching framerates. Any difference in visuals would be obvious when action on screen was not hectic and more sedate.
Ahhh okay, thanks for the info. Still, to go for a refurbished / used 1080TI for the same money as a new 2080, I guess you're right to go for the newer card, bypassing the hassle you had with the resellers.
Thanks for this Hilbert. Site always has timely updates.
I like the training grounds and being able to practice shooting and flying.
I don't like that after this update, I started to experience a situation by which I completely lose control of my soldier when hitting 'esc' to view my assignment progress mid-round or sometimes when spawning. The only functionality I'm left with is the ability to chat.
The only way to get out of it (because I won't wait until the end of the round to see if it gets fixed), is by way of task manager and ending the BFV process.
This didn't happen once before the update. Since the update, I've attempted to play six rounds and have had this happen five times.
Also, at the end of the rounds, the squad doesn't always appear correctly any longer. There are some real quirks that need to be ironed out with this update.
Further, while ray-tracing is "neat" at this point, anything compromising your frame rate undermines your competitive advantage. At some point, ray-tracing may be commonplace and not the performance-sucking feature it is today (hairworks?), but we are not there yet.
___ UPDATE 12/7 ___
I suspect the issues I had on patch release day were server-side as I experienced none whatsoever today.
euh are serious here , try playing BFV multiplayer at 135 fps and again at 65fps ( RT on ) and you'll see the difference unless you are playing on a 60hz 2k monitor -_-
Dlss still isn't implimented right? I'd say with that, we're looking at 4k 60fps maxed rtx on.
There's actually more options than you seems to assume. As i'm on a 4K monitor i'll stick to 4K wide and play with resolution scaling, upon further testing i realised that you can't really go below 82-83% resolution scaling without noticeable aliasing appearing, to which point if you really want 4K wide you can start using custom resolution to lower the height until acceptable performance.
Here i played almost all the map in breakthrough with 5 wins in row being top part of leaderboard playing on 3840x1690, so 'playabale!' (commercial ultrawide for monitors at 4K would be around 3840x1608) with ray tracing on Ultra, and 82%scaling. This was prior to the Tide of War patch:
Now as a comparison i just posted this one in multiplayer, at 3840x1900 Tides of war patch - Ray Tracing Low (which at 4K still gives you incredible reflections as the quality settings for reflection is a % of the resolution, which means low settings at 4K is still 4times more detailed than 1080p low settings as far as reflection is concerned)
It's really playable and shows a lot of progress regarding this tech. Hopefully all the drama-queen and bashing regarding ray tracing will calm now as it's getting ridiculus.
Umm DLSS isn't 4K. Entire point of DLSS is game runs at 1440p and upscales to 4K giving you "free" performance boost.
From a game developer:
It's looking good.
There are a few weird RT glitches now and then, but most aren't too glaring + will likely be fixed in coming updates.
I've not yet had a chance to play BF V, but expect to be using RT, ideally in 4K if my 2080 can pull it off by the time I get to play which won't be for some weeks yet.
Though I've been wanting proper 4k hardware and only Just got it mere days ago, I think I'd take a lower res hit for RT, hard to un-see something done right
Times will be good for it by next gen cards and it will be much more widespread by then with AMD supporting it too. (I don't expect 2019's AMD cards to support it though)
Well, you are actually looking at screen-space-reflections with few rays thrown at simplified clone of same scene. In other words: "Most of those reflections are not raytraced. And those which are raytraced, are fake."
And if that IQ is 4 times as bad on 1080p, it is double step back.