Cryptocurrency CHIO can destroy an SSD in 40 days

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, May 17, 2021.

  1. Hilbert Hagedoorn

    Hilbert Hagedoorn Don Vito Corleone Staff Member

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    Chia is positioned as an ecological alternative to Bitcoin relative to energy consumption. It's not mining, but farming on your storage solution. Its greener credentials seem questionable. Not only a...

    Cryptocurrency CHIO can destroy an SSD in 40 days
     
  2. Undying

    Undying Ancient Guru

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    Why dont they use enterprise slc ssd's? Those can last much longer.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2021
  3. CrazY_Milojko

    CrazY_Milojko Ancient Guru

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    There's nothing ecological in Chia farming/mining if landfills are going to get clogged with dead SSDs in months that comes.
     
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  4. TheDeeGee

    TheDeeGee Ancient Guru

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    The amount of e-waste is gonna be insane!
     
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  5. magiQx

    magiQx Active Member

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    so, the advertised TBW is false? I mean, if some manufacturer advertises 1000 TBW and it dies sooner, the TBW is not true. Or how to understand this.
     
  6. Lebon30

    Lebon30 Member Guru

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    You need lots of space. 60GB's not going to cut it.
     
  7. k3vst3r

    k3vst3r Ancient Guru

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    1 plot eats about 270 to 300GB writes

    1k plots is like 300TBW

    10k plots is like 3000TBW most gen 4 nvme drives rated at 3600TBW before failure

    12k plots to fully use up 3600TBW writes

    you need 1.2PB storage for 12k plots

    you can fit 110 plots on 12TB external hard drive which will last 5+ years 24/7/365 usage if configured properly like windows not turning hard drive on and off etc
     
  8. CrazY_Milojko

    CrazY_Milojko Ancient Guru

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    Answer could be both Yes and No.

    Under normal home/office usage if some consumer 512GB SSD drive has lets say TBW = 800TB and it dies after 700TB inside of 3 or 5 year warranty period there is a valid reason for RMA. Thing is that there is almost impossible for an average user to make so much write trafic under normal home or office usage to get to these 700, 800TB inside 3 to 5 year warranty period.

    On the other hand Chia is heavy on SSD controller and NAND cells, a lot of stress for a piece of HW not designed to be fully stressed 24/7, talking about consumer SSD, not those made for enterprise usage. Lets say one buys a family car and gets a 100.000Km or 3 years warranty, sits in a car and drives 24/7 like there is no tomorrow, car not made for heavy usage like that dies within weeks after 50.000Km. Does a car buyer have a full right for car RMA for such non-adequate usage in short period of time... I don't think so.

    As @Undying already mentioned Chia miners/farmers should use enterprise SLC or MLC based SSD made for heavy usage 24/7... but those TLC and QLC based consumer SSDs are way way cheaperm of course Chia miners/farmers are targeting cheaper consumer SSDs, guess they don't give a f#*k about cheap consumer SSDs as long as they can get RMA requests accepted for those. For sure SSD manufacturers are going to get clogged with RMA requests for consumer SSDs in next few months. If this Chia bullshit contnues for sure SSD manufacturers are going to adopt new rules for SSD warranty/RMA... or to significantly lower TBW in specs... or to raise the SSD prices ...or everything mentioned.

    Interesting story about non-adequate usage of product and refused RMA request... Friend of a friend of mine last winter bought a branded summer sneakers in well known retail, those were on sale. Month and a half later (guess he was wearing them mostly outside), it was February this year iirc, sneakers started to peel off here and there. He took them for an RMA in same retail store: they've refused to RMA those with explanation that those summer sneakers were not used in period of year they were made for (spring & summer). He couldn't do a thing for that RMA to be accepted. Lesson learned... don't use a product outside warranty rules. Guess he should wait for a summer to RMA these sneakers :rolleyes:
     
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  9. Andy Watson

    Andy Watson Master Guru

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    To be fair Chia itself says to create the plot (s) using the SSD as a temporary measure then move it to a HDD, creating it does take a lot of time, but only about a day or so. I guess if you have lots of hard drives and create say 1000 plots on the SSD before moving them over then you might also have issues ??????

    I did it for a week or so recently, but it came apparent that unless you were in at the start, or near the start, when you could get Chia quite quickly now you need a good percentage of a Petabyte to have a chance of creating money out of it in a relatively short period of time. Hence why the number of hard drives is being bought up similar to graphics cards now.

    Even when I was doing the total plot size went from 300 or so Petabytes to about 800. Now it about 5 Exabytes or whatever the next one up is.... and still getting bigger.

    Of course the guy who invented it, who also did bittorrent is sitting pretty, along with his workers and friends, they all got the low lying fruit at the start so he is probably a billionaire already if he had any sense as the price is already about $1500 per chia I think.
     
  10. cryohellinc

    cryohellinc Ancient Guru

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    All of those coins are a massive financial pyramid with little to no actual values. The amount of electricity consumed and waste is insane.

    This has to be stopped or at least regulated on a governmental level.
     
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  11. Silva

    Silva Ancient Guru

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    Any reasonable intelligent person knows this. But we're still a long way of having someone with the power to do something.
    It has started though:
    https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...-tax-sleuths-bore-in/articleshow/82612416.cms
     
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  12. willgart

    willgart Member

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    Chia space used is it 6000PB!!!
    in 2 days they jumped from 5000PB of storage to 6000PB.

    and when all of these SSD will die, its just waste, nothing to do with them.

    and yes, its not ecological at all. the more SSD and plot you farm at the same time, the faster the CPU must be. and for sure the drives are running all the time, which is consuming power for sure.
     
  13. iicycube

    iicycube Member

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    Another hardware going to hike up price despite other doing the same soon.
     
  14. Cplifj

    Cplifj Active Member

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    Why do people keep faling for these scams, obviously they get started by manufacturers that have too much stock and/or want more income. Gfx cards, Ram, Hd and SD, what's the next crypto that will use your RGB CPU to wear it out ??? *grin*
     
  15. FM57

    FM57 Master Guru

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    What about typical HDD (meaning not SSD) ?
     

  16. Solfaur

    Solfaur Ancient Guru

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    Great, now I'll have to stop eating chia seeds.
     
  17. Cave Waverider

    Cave Waverider Maha Guru

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    Maybe one could try to mine it on a virtual RAM Disk instead. One may need lots of RAM, though. Better than trashing SSDs and performance could potentially be better, too.
     
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  18. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    Good. Now hopefully it won't become economically sustainable.
     
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  19. AlmondMan

    AlmondMan Master Guru

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    So is the entire economic system that runs the world, though.
     
  20. Huggi

    Huggi Active Member

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    No. der8auer has tested Chia farming and he found that to create a single 100GB plot, the farming program did over 1.3TB of writes (he mentions this at the 6:30 mark in the video below). And he was creating multiple plots per day. Regular consumer SSDs don't have a TBW high enough to deal with that since even 50GB of writes per day is considered high in consumer use cases.

     
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