Cost of electricity now in Europe

Discussion in 'The Guru's Pub' started by geogan, Mar 2, 2023.

  1. SplashDown

    SplashDown Maha Guru

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    Because the ones in charge don't want that it's not oil. I'm still wondering if tesla's idea would of worked he died & gov't snatched up all his work.
     
  2. anticupidon

    anticupidon Ancient Guru

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    It is not about not having the means or the technology for harnessing the plentiful natural sources of clean energy, it is all about not willing, greed and power turfing.
    Despicable people burning fossil fuel instead of thinking ahead and preserve nature and leave a livable planet for the next generation.

    That's why I am on a voyage of finding the best low power, yet powerful machines for personal use.
     
  3. Raserian

    Raserian Master Guru

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    Will you finally stop writing stuff impulsively?

    Every continent is next to a water. That does not mean that water is usable. But let's start with one by one:

    - First of all hydrogen stations need elemental hydrogen, which has to be manufactured separately, which is costly and does generate considerable amount of carbon emission. So out of those uses that need hydrogen, it is used for making fertilizers and other chemicals we cannot otherwise produce. We can produce power with other ways which are cheaper and ecologically better.
    - You cannot make hydrogen with electrolysis effectively because electrolysis does generate a lot of heat and consume high amounts of electrical power.
    - Just like other methods you mentioned tidal generation is not yet technically feasible and even then not all coasts have tides that are strong enough to be used for such a purpose.
    - If by heat exchange you mean heat pumps, that is better alternative to conventional heating only in some cases, it is technically much more complicated than regular HVAC systems, which drives up initial cost of installation, maintenance and repairs of such a system and does not work very well if outside temperature drops too low.
    - Ocean water cannot be used for regular use, you cannot drink it or use for industrial purposes because it contains salt. Desalinating water is complicated and costly operation not sustainable for such a massive use.
    - Only water that we can use for our needs is fresh water. Rivers and lakes and constructed basins don't contain as much water as you think they do. And we only rely on its renewal by rainfall.
    - Europe experiences cold and dry winters and hot and dry summers. Raining is mostly during spring and autumn. In summer, thunderstorms are happening but don't last long and some years see considerable drought. In winter there isn't much snow. I am sure that in United States they have similar problems, if not worse in southern states, California had imposed legal limits to water use last year.
    - Some more common renewable sources are water turbines and solar panels. Again these have some use but it's not all good. Turbines slow the movement of rivers which does affect the ecosystem and solar panels are still costly to manufacture and create a lot of carbon emissions in the process, they also quickly age and need replacement.
    It's definitely better than sub-saharan Africa for sure, but claiming it's free power, come on. There is no such a thing as free energy. If you want free energy so bad, plug your oven to your neighbor's outlet.
     
  4. tunejunky

    tunejunky Ancient Guru

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    acknowledged
    the real issue here is that the loudest voices for China joining the WTO were the same voices selling "off-shoring" instead of making an industrial plan for the nation. and when the "fracking" boom started none of the LPG points were situated -at all- for the European market, which drove detached from reality planning within the western alliance on both sides.
    now those voices are being hypocritically hard on China while giving Vlad a pass. some bozo needed to look at a map and see the shipping line from N.J. (if they had made a LPG plant there) to Rotterdam. especially as the first fracking boom was in Pennsylvania.
     

  5. Corrupt^

    Corrupt^ Ancient Guru

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    Had a lot of p states, etc disabled in the bios as well. Basically did a run through of the bios & power settings and adjusted it so I could keep my OC when running games, but have power saving doing its job while doing normal stuff like browsing.

    I'm considering a CPU upgrade this year though, waiting for the 7800X3D. AMD hasn't really beaten the 13900K, but it pretty much gives the same performance at much lower power consumption.
     
  6. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    [​IMG]

    I swear, some people just need to play more simcity
     
  7. rl66

    rl66 Ancient Guru

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    Right now i have around 500 euro of electricity by month despite i produce some with 3 voltaic panel...
    And aroud 200 euro of gaz by month despite i use wood fire too (we are in the moutain :) ).
    On top of that gazoline cost around 2 euro by liter now :(
    Also water will rise in few month because it start to come from the plain by truck...
    Europe should really be independent on essential industry instead to sell them to other countries, and depend on other countries in the name of mondialisation...
    i don't think that gaz that come from USA by boat (mostly heavy fuel powered) are ecologic, same with electricity made with coal plant in germany,
    It's a huge step back for Europe.
     
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  8. rl66

    rl66 Ancient Guru

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    This is in the perfect world...
    As an exemple in France the LH2 is already a feet in the grave despite million of euro invested.
    Also wind turbine can't work in some condition, i was ashamed when i ear from the tech of a wind turbine park on french side, that the wind turbine doesn't work most of the time because wind is too strong, so they limit the production to not broke them... Does anyone have talk with local countryman before doing this park? Everyone know that wind reach over 130 Km/h there...
    The idea is good, but as always, people with no brain but money, make it worse than it should be.
     
  9. rflair

    rflair Don Coleus Staff Member

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    You know what is strange, America is trying to tell it citizens that stoves/ovens running on natural gas are bad for the environment, not good for your health; people not realizing why would they sell natural gas to their own citizens when it can be sold abroad, Europe, for at minimum 3x the cost.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2023
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  10. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    I did not know there were issues with France in terms of investment, in fact, I do not even know what specific topic you are referring to with that comment - can you clarify?
     

  11. Zooke

    Zooke Master Guru

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    'Tell Sid' we're taking it back.
    You will have to be older and from the UK to get that.
     
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  12. geogan

    geogan Maha Guru

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    Yeah, that's what I meant - seems one powerful "suit" in some electricity company gambled and fixed a buy price for next year or two... and now all us consumers have to pay big time for this rich suits mistake at fixing at a high buying price!

    Reminds me when rich suit at head of banks brought my country to its knees and had to be bailed out... and I and everyone in country paying an extra 2 grand a year in tax forever to pay the loan back... and he/them got away scot free!
     
  13. geogan

    geogan Maha Guru

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    Some corporate takeover of water was tried in my country... suddenly free water was getting billed by some semi-state company (which you know would be privatised soon)... entire country rioted and they had to scrap charges.
     
  14. geogan

    geogan Maha Guru

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    I checked my settings using that program recommended in this thread... and seems I was on High Performance mode for some mistake reason... changed back to Power Saver mode. Don't care about slight loss of ultimate performance.

    And I also checked power usage... uses about 132W idling... but when you start anything with high GPU/CPU usage... it goes to 297W... my entire at the wall power usage with everything was 600W in Battlefield 2042 Homescreen @ 144FPS 65% GPU 43% CPU

    The meter on plug also records KWH and its already at nearly 8 units (€4.50?) since 2nd March when I reconfigured so all was plugged in and measuring correctly.
     
  15. geogan

    geogan Maha Guru

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    Sorry but the electricity / gas companies do not know or care that you turn into living like a caveman to save money - they would not lower prices because of that. I work hard to earn the measly amount I get... wish I could stop all these large rich parasitic companies stealing from my small bank account every month (banks, utility, insurance).
     
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  16. anticupidon

    anticupidon Ancient Guru

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    And yet I was ironically ridiculed(not here) some time ago for measuring each device power consumption and advocate for buying server prosumer hardware and lower C states.
    Now, GPUs have actually pushed for higher power consumption as a result of achievement of performance. But come on, that comes at a higher price in ownership and running costs.
     
  17. geogan

    geogan Maha Guru

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    Just got my gas bill now too from same company...

    m3/ft3 * Conv.Factor = Units (kWh)
    217m3 @ 11.5740 = 2512 kwh = €392

    So that's about €840 (894 USD) for TWO months of electricty and gas - I live in a 1000sq/ft 3-bed duplex apartment!
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2023
  18. lmimmfn

    lmimmfn Ancient Guru

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    I got hit with a 560Euro electricity bill last February even before the war kicked off so i made several changes like:
    - unplugging anything on standby thats rarely used
    - replaced my old energy hungry media centre with a 5700G which the kid uses for light gaming
    - replaced the fridge which was needed anyway
    - bought a steam deck for gaming during the week as my gaming PC is in my office and prefer to close that office door in the evenings and chill
    - use our small oven more than the large fan oven.

    Electricity bill went from ~230euro average every 2 months before Ukraine kicked off to 187euro every 2 months(and thats without any government credits).

    Governments are loving the astronomical energy prices as it suits their green agenda and forcing people to be more frugal with electricity/heating.
     
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  19. WhiteLightning

    WhiteLightning Don Illuminati Staff Member

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    Buckingham palace ?!?
     
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  20. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    Its useful to work out the cost to keep a certain number of Watts running permanently, or how many Watts can be left on for a certain cost.
    This helps explain to others how much things cost to be left on.
    (This wont consider standing charges because it has no effect on them.)

    For example:
    In the UK its around 33.83p/KWh inc vat at the moment. (assumed 30days/month)
    100W left on permanently costs on average:

    Day = 81.2p (or approx £1 per day minus 20% to make it easier to work out multiples)
    Month = £24.36
    Year = £296.35


    Alternatively, £ amount allows me use of Watts continuous :

    £1/day = 123W
    £10/month = 41W
    £100/year = 33.7W


    If someone leaves a device on standby that takes 3W and its hardly ever used, thats approximately £9 per year to leave it plugged in!
    Multiply that up by the number of things left on standby.

    I bought banks of switchable plug sockets with neon lights from IKEA to show which are left switched on.
    Before bed these can be powered off at the flick of a switch, the neon lights make it easy to see what needs powering off.
    (its best to use sockets without switches/neons for those devices that will always be left on, to avoid confusion.)

    FYI
     

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