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Control

Discussion in 'Games, Gaming & Game-demos' started by WhiteLightning, Jun 12, 2018.

  1. sertopico

    sertopico Master Guru

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    @S.T.A.R.A.C. Your arrogance is not a virtue as well. Relax, life is too short already.

    I have never denied there are other methods which can solve the limitations of SSR, I was commenting on your video and what it was showing. In any case, is it better using one technology which solves all the equations at once - and I am NOT referring only to nvidia tech but also to Ray Tracing in general - or using three difference technologies which bring to the same result but are most likely more time consuming? Why nobody used these planar reflections until now when it was so convenient (I am talking about the last 10-15 years)? Are we sure performance are going to be good with millions of triangles on screen which need to be duplicated? RTX is still of course an hybrid version and yes, it is partially a cheat, but for now is what's getting closer to physical reality. I also agree with you that the tech is not ripe yet but it is the first stone for the future tech.

    PS: there is one example where planar reflections have been lately used and that is Resident Evil II Remake, namely in the interrogation room where there is a false mirror reflecting stuff properly, in that case the framerate sunk drastically. Using that kind of reflections on deferred engines bring to a huge computational expense, I read a paper about it many years ago.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
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  2. S.T.A.R.A.C.

    S.T.A.R.A.C. Master Guru

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    This is not the question of do some people like RTX or not. The problem here is that they cheat with this RTX bullshit. Like i said they deliberately degrade traditional raster to trick people into believing how raytracing is so much superior. So if you disable RTX or you can't use it because you don't have Nvidia hardware or you have a console, in that case you are gonna end up with shitty reflections or lack of AO like in the Metro case.

    I'm arrogant because i tell the truth?

    How can RT solve all problems if you have huge performance problems, and you still have to use tricks and hybrid approach! And yes RTX is only Nvidia, so you need to have 2 implementations for GI or reflections in every game, which is even more time consuming. Btw, the reason why devs use SSR is zero performance cost, so you can spend that surplus on something that is more important like geometry or LODs. There are more important aspects of graphics that first should be dealt with, and then we can talk about RT.
    And then there is this big problem with deliberate cheating and lowering quality of graphics, to which many people are completely ignorant!

    Btw, you can mix SSR and planar to achieve much better performance.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
  3. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    Is there any proof that anything was deliberately downgraded.

    Everytime i hear or read downgrade I roll my eyes, but Nvidia downgrading consoles games......
     
  4. sertopico

    sertopico Master Guru

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    No, because you put yourself on a pedestal all the time (and by the way, ignorance is a virtue when you admit you are and you are willing to learn), which does not help in a conversation.

    In any case, as I wrote, RTX is just the first approach to this technology but let's not forget that now also DirectX implements DXR and therefore we just need to wait some more time till it gets accessible to everybody. Till then we get the hybrid approach that is more accurate than the previous systems used anyway, and it does everything at once (yes, it is extremely resource consuming but it's the first try to make it real time with a decent performance, apart from the voxel based stuff). Regarding SSR, well you gave yourself the answer, better investing more resources in the virtual world you walk in than into something which gets reflected into a mirror (it might get philosophical here :D )... The limiting factors are above all money and time you have to realize something. Compromises have to be made, always.
     

  5. XenthorX

    XenthorX Ancient Guru

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    We're in 2019, we've created an army of solution to fake what ground truth solved light transport looks like.
    The point of raytracing is to don't have artist do extra work, place extra probes, at the right spot, bake extra light, (and all this take a lot of hours and manpower) to achieve a realistic look.
    You turn in on, *cling* ground truth, that's awesome, i just hope the RTX 30XX serie will have enough RT cores to make it run natively at 4K60.

    You could have get a similar result (no as good i'll argue) from the Quake RTX demo without ray tracing but the amount of probes (reflections and GI probes) to place in each room at the right place would have been an impossible work load, no way they were doing the whole game.


    So hyped for Control, just realised lately that the main character was the same actress from Quantum Break !
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
  6. Damien_Azreal

    Damien_Azreal Ancient Guru

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    Yep. Courtney Hope.
    Remedy really like to stick with performers and actors they have a good relationship with. I'm glad the game also has roles for James Mccaffrey (Max Payne) and Ilkka Villi (Alan Wake).
    James wasn't in Quantum Break, which makes it the only game since Max Payne he hasn't had a part in. :( But, so glad he's back in Control.
     
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  7. S.T.A.R.A.C.

    S.T.A.R.A.C. Master Guru

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    The point of Nvidia RTX is to rob you! And some of you people don't get this, unfortunately. And don't talk about raytracing when todays hardware is not capable of doing it properly, not even close.
    Here is what Cryengine engineers did with their RT implementation: https://www.kitguru.net/components/...als-more-details-on-ray-tracing-in-cryengine/

    Quote:
    “One of the important components of any ray tracing implementation is the ray intersection acceleration structure. Our SVOGI (Total Illumination) system already contained what was necessary, so it was a relatively straightforward step to add the data required for ray tracing. In the current implementation, for every voxel, we store a reference to overlapping triangles, plus the usual information like albedo, opacity, and normal data.

    Merging voxel and ray tracing data provides great flexibility. For example, for diffuse rays, true mesh tracing is needed only near the beginning of the ray but for the rest of the ray we can use more efficient cone tracing without any visual artifacts. A similar optimization works with specular rays. Only smooth and clean surfaces like mirrors require true mesh ray tracing. Most low-gloss, less shiny surfaces can be traced much faster simply by tracing voxels, which will achieve the same or better visual output.”


    They have merged voxel and ray tracing, aka hybrid solution. Btw, every so called ray tracing based GI should be internal, a part of the engine like SVOTI is in Cryengine. This provides 100% compatibility and the best performance, which this Nvidia RTX nonsense does not provide. So the question is how many companies will make their own internal solution. It was easy for Crytek to do this, as they explained in that article above.
    One more problem is complexity of the scenes. The more your game is complex, the more it has details, especially in the open world dynamic environment full of vegetation, these so called RT solutions will work like crap.
    SVOTI is the king here.
     
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  8. Undying

    Undying Ancient Guru

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    You guys know that @S.T.A.R.A.C. means "old man" on Serbian. Dont argue with him, he is wise.
     
  9. Undying

    Undying Ancient Guru

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    Yeah, i didnt know it at first too. Her destiny in QB story is quite sad.
     
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  10. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    i think you typo'd "confused"
     

  11. haste

    haste Master Guru

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    /OT
    I personally wouldn't mind ppl like STARAC with their own opinion about some technology, if their statements were at least correct and not misleading or totally wrong.
     
  12. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    Google says Croatian, but i'm assuming they may be missing something.

    Username request change, Starac to uvijek ljut

    On topic, kinda...the policy of every every company is to rob you, it's how they survive.

    Who cares if we don't have the hardware for RT, if someone wants RT and can tolerate a large performance, that is their choice.

    I'm not paying stupid money for a GPU for that gives small visual increases and large performance decreases, but it would be great if there was a large back catalog of RT games by the time it becomes something that everyone has access to.

    I know the epeen people hate future proofing, but tough sh1t.
     
  13. S.T.A.R.A.C.

    S.T.A.R.A.C. Master Guru

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    And guess what, you have a choice not to support that. You always have a choice.

    I'm not angry at all. Btw, it's Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian, but don't try to understand it because it's stupidly complex. Separatism at it's best.
     
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  14. XenthorX

    XenthorX Ancient Guru

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    26 Minutes of PC Gameplay w/ Ray Tracing Enabled

    edit: just noticed that the video below was recorded at 24fps lol

     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019
  15. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

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    Yawn what a bs game.. what is she some kind of witch with telekinetic powers..?

    Also her casting shadows looks a bit weak at times and that so called rtx on doesn't look anything special.

    Won't bother with this.. I think I would rather replay Quantum Break instead :D
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019

  16. XenthorX

    XenthorX Ancient Guru

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    that's really weird, some people have seen the demo with all raytracing option ON running at 1080p60 wih a 2070 ... oO

    Edit: Oh wait, the video itself isn't even at 60 frame per second, but 24.... !
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019
  17. jbscotchman

    jbscotchman Ancient Guru

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    Ugh, Ray Tracing lowers you resolution and cut's your fps in half. Awesome!
     
  18. Alex13

    Alex13 Ancient Guru

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    Still more than the eye can see I bet
     
  19. DocStrangelove

    DocStrangelove Ancient Guru

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    Started the video and fell asleep. The only thing i remember now is that her mouth is hanging on one side when open, like Sylvester Stallone.
    I seriously doubt anyone would like to pay for this game, seems like a waste of sparetime.
     
  20. XenthorX

    XenthorX Ancient Guru

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    if i had extra money to burn i'd pre order. Loved Quantum Break !
     
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