China Loongson CPU has IPC equivalent to Zen 4 and Raptor Lake - but lower clock frequency

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Feb 13, 2024.

  1. Hilbert Hagedoorn

    Hilbert Hagedoorn Don Vito Corleone Staff Member

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  2. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

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    To me noob that looks like that in the not too far future, they won't have to rely on foreign CPUs anymore.
    Sure, there's a long way to go and lessons to learn, but they have gotten there rather quickly (be it due to own ingenuity or reverse engineering).
     
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  3. moo100times

    moo100times Master Guru

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    This is impressive within confines of 12nm. Surprised given this they haven't developed an infinity fabric equivalent and scaled using similar approach to AMD given production constraints.
     
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  4. rl66

    rl66 Ancient Guru

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    On other hand China were working with Intel and AMD not so long ago, and have selfmade CPU partnership with both.
    So it's not a so big surprise.
     
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  5. Alessio1989

    Alessio1989 Ancient Guru

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    they will learn to stop such collaboration when it's too late.
     
  6. H83

    H83 Ancient Guru

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    I have an hard time believing this...

    They might be improving at a good rate but achieving parity with AMD and Intel in just a few years... Smells of BS.
     
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  7. AuerX

    AuerX Ancient Guru

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    The Chinese have the people and the facilities, and have pretty much learned on the job.

    The real competition starts when they begin to innovate on their own, probably in at least partial collaboration with the Russians who will be a big customer.

    Both regimes will depend heavily on this in the future to keep their grip on power. Expect it to advance rapidly.
     
  8. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    The architecture is based on MIPS and I'm a bit suspicious about the benchmarks they chose; likely cherry-picked results, since I'm sure the average application would run significantly worse once you involve more advanced instructions.
    It's great for a MIPS chip and probably fine for everyday office tasks, but even ARM is further along at being competitive with x86.
     
  9. Brasky

    Brasky Ancient Guru

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    Guess that's the only level of tech they've stolen so far, that's the benefit of china being unable to innovate is that they will always be years behind.
     
  10. A.Wesker

    A.Wesker New Member

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  11. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    AI is likely to play a part in new developments for all mfrs.
    The best AI for the job might be what wins this.

    Intel and AMD are unlikely to move to much larger nodes now for high end designs. Newer developments with larger node sizes will undoubtedly be better than those already in use.
     
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  12. Valken

    Valken Ancient Guru

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    Pretty sure AI will accelerate progress for anyone. For me, it is impressive to see a potential 3rd or 4th player enter the game (Apple is coming on super strong but still proprietary to their own eco-system).

    This will only push Intel and AMD to innovate harder and hopefully drive down prices...
     
  13. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

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    Absolutely true and I do not disagree. Especially when it comes to the cherry picked benchmarks and the lacking advanced instructions. (Although to be fair, just look at the next iteration of AMD vs Intel and you'll see, just as AMD vs Nvidia, they all do it like that).
    Yet the question remains, on mastering the basics, how long do they need to tinker with it to jump another hoop and catch up some more? One thing we shouldn't forget is that this is a snapshot of the current situation. And in the long run, as you said, they're still behind, that's my noob impression.

    But being behind shows one crucial thing one likes to overlook: they're in the race too, and that's a fact.
     
  14. AuerX

    AuerX Ancient Guru

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    Really the question is, if they can achieve things that meets their needs, how much does it really matter if they're behind a few gens?
     
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  15. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

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    I agree with that perspective. For much of what the Chinese do, what they have is probably sufficient I would guess (office work). Question is, can they build servers with that down the road.
     

  16. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    Hard to say for sure how long it'll take for them to develop the instructions to compete with the likes of AVX or NEON, but even in doing so, that's just the first step. There's also the bigger hurdle of software adoption of those instructions. MIPS has been around for a long time, but if Loongson's architectural changes are exclusive to their chips then most open-source software (which China depends on) isn't going to have developers optimize for those instructions. If however they upstream their changes and permit other MIPS-based chips to use them, I could see this being a legitimate contender against RISC-V and ARM.

    As for overclocking, I don't know if that will pan out. MIPS has never been known for clocking high, and considering China's power grid situation, I don't think Loongson is incentivized to beef up VRMs and cooling capacity.
     
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  17. ttnuagmada

    ttnuagmada Master Guru

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    They're about to hit the EUV wall that will probably take them another decade or more to get over.
     
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  18. EspHack

    EspHack Ancient Guru

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    if they can tap nuke power for their servers, they will walk all over the world, efficiency be dammed
     
  19. rl66

    rl66 Ancient Guru

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    It's hard to stop...
    In january it was the 2nd most populated country on earth (1 425 493 416 people) and India (same problem with medic) is the 1st (1 435 228 798 people) and both have long teeth...
    That mean the acceptation of some lost is the counter part of a juicy bisness (2 860 722 214 / 8 082 070 900).
    Also there is persistant rumor about China holding more US$ than USA itself...
     
  20. rflair

    rflair Don Coleus Staff Member

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    Is Loongson the owner of Cyrix?
     

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