BF4 - R9 290, DX or Mantle

Discussion in 'Videocards - AMD Radeon Drivers Section' started by deeselcyde, Oct 6, 2014.

  1. deeselcyde

    deeselcyde Active Member

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    I've been doing some research because I'm not too thrilled with the way BF4 runs on my PC. When I first got my 290 I thought I should run Mantle because it was the new thing yadda yadda. I tried DX after a couple weeks and noticed that free looking around was a tad bit smoother, which I obviously liked. I am running everything on Ultra 4X AA with no HDAO or SSAO Vsync ON (I will not play with screen tearing). The problem I ran into with DX11 is that I get frame drops to the mid-low 50's while playing, which I don't think should happen. For example, on the top of the mountain of Operation Mortar when I would look down below to the other flags my frames would suddenly drop to 50, turn away and they shoot back up to 60. When running Mantle I never ever have seen it drop below 60, but, I get that "unsmoothness" when free looking around that I don't get with Dx. Is it because Dx supports triple buffering? I also messed around with the renderaheadlimit in the config and couldn't really find one noticeably better than the other for Mantle.

    Before my 290 I was running an OC'd 6950 that could handle BF4 on Dx11 at medium settings no problem, never dropped below 60. I would like to think that a card 4 years newer could handle it at Ultra no problem.

    The weird thing is, it seems like people mainly have problems with Mantle and revert back to Dx and have no problems at all. That's where I'm confused.

    By no means is Mantle unplayable or anything, it's just not as good as Dx11. I tried repairing the game and I'm running the newest 14.9 drivers. These newer drivers don't seem any better or any worse than the last ones.

    Everyone seems to love the green team. Do their cards experience problems such as this with Bf4? I've read that DICE didn't do a very good job optimizing it for the PC. Should I have any reason to regret my decision in buying this card?

    Any advice would be appreciated.
     
  2. Seren

    Seren Master Guru

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    Been discussed 100s of times in the individual driver threads. Quite a few people are saying Mantle is a lot better in the CTE version which will apparently land when the DLC does (whenever that is I don't know).
    I personally don't own BF4 but played the beta, in which it ran fine but suffered from major registry issues.
     
  3. deeselcyde

    deeselcyde Active Member

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    I was under the impression that the patch that dropped last week was the "big" patch...?
     
  4. Seren

    Seren Master Guru

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    Oh, tbh I wouldn't know, all I remember was it was a few days ago people were saying that but yeah it's Monday here, last week could mean yesterday. I was assuming people would mention the changes after the patch but I don't think I saw any.
    Just curious, have you tried the OpenCL 2 modded drivers by Asder (14.8 Mantle)? Or 14.8 WHQL?
    EDIT: D'oh, I should stop posting while tired, a quick Google says it was 5 days ago -.-
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2014

  5. MacT

    MacT Member Guru

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    It was, but the fix for Mantle and crossfire memory leaks WAS NOT in the patch. Disappointed.

    I get 2 memory problems running Mantle and crossfire: System ram fills to overflow - usually takes a few map changes for me (I have 16Gb ram). Also Vram on first map loads fine and is below max vram (3 Gb vram cards), then slowly rises during play. Is ok for first game, but at map change the vram does not get reset for new map. It just keeps going up slowly to overfill. Is like system ram AND vram is not fully released at map change.

    Regards your issues:

    Whenever I update drivers I always delete the MantlePipelinecache files in the Documents/ Battlefield4/ cache folder. These files are read for the game at load. If they were created under an older mantle version then there may be issues when run under a newer version of Mantle. If deleted, these files are created again using your current mantle version. So try delete them and see if it helps.

    Vsync. For me, using the in game vsync (in menu) gives me performance that is not smooth - regular small cpu spiking which effects output/gameplay. I leave the menu vsync 'off' and then use the following fps limiter in the cfg file: GameTime.MaxVariableFps 59.94
    Gives me a near flat line cpu and gameplay is way smoother.

    So just to clarify, my main reason why I don't run mantle is because of these memory issues with Mantle in crossfire. Single cards should be fine. And try those other 2 things above and see if it helps.

    Currently running the OpenCL 2.0 but that 14.9 should be same mantle version.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2014
  6. SlackerITGuy

    SlackerITGuy Master Guru

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    You got a source on that mate?, would love to see it.
     
  7. jaju123

    jaju123 Master Guru

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    It's also not fixed for me. Just generally sucks.
     
  8. dampflokfreund

    dampflokfreund Member Guru

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    Mantle is definately better
     
  9. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    BF4 Mantle over DX for me.
    And your issue is PICNIC, you assume too much. Lower some details, AA 1st, it is fast paced always moving game. 4x AA is highly overrated for fps game, you rather get those shadows which will give you better perception of space.
    Soon I'll have HD7970 for 3 years, performance bump since then is 35-40% for GPUs of same purchase price. (it is changing now)
    Performance bump for CPUs of same price is up to 10%. (it will change in 9-12 months from now)

    If you want all those effects in such graphically extensive game, get 2nd R9-290, they are going down in price.
     
  10. crz

    crz Member Guru

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    Adding to MacT's post: I find VSync on in BF3 and BF4 to introduce a lot of very noticeable input lag, I always use VSync off in those games. Also I limit the FPS to 90 or 100 FPS since anything below that has visible tearing.


    I used Mantle until the previous patch, June or July. Back then the memory leak started to happen but it was somehow tolerable. I would use Mantle intermittently and restart the game when the leak occurred.

    Now, after the "big" CTE patch hit retail I only use DX11, the memory leak is even worse.

    I miss the smoothness of Mantle but the CPU stuttering when the memory fills up makes the game unplayable. It goes from nice 90% Crossfire scaling with very steady 90 FPS to 30-40% usage on each card and mega stuttering in a few rounds. DX11 has way more FPS variance and I can notice it even without the PerfOverlay graph but at least it does not go completely to hell after 3-4 rounds.

    Driver is Catalyst 14.9, system specs are in my profile.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2014

  11. MacT

    MacT Member Guru

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    No 'source'. Experience. Before the July 8th patch my 2 x HD7970 ran mantle great in bf4. After patch, memory leaks in mantle crossfire introduced. This last big patch 30th September did not fix it because my system still has memory issue. And if you want you can read this: http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/forum/threadview/2979150494051082340/ No mention of any fixes for memory leaks for crossfire mantle.
     
  12. SlackerITGuy

    SlackerITGuy Master Guru

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    I did not make myself clear mate, my bad.

    I was asking from where did you get that they had a fix for Mantle and/or Crossfire for BF4?
     
  13. crz

    crz Member Guru

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    Last edited: Oct 7, 2014
  14. danfim

    danfim Master Guru

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    So far Mantle has been nothing but problems for me. Also the performance gain is very negligible in my experience. Generally not worth using over D3D11 (for now, anyway).
     
  15. crz

    crz Member Guru

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    The trouble started in July when a patch hit, that's when the leak was first noticed. Before the July patch (and after patch but before the memory leak hits) with both a single R9 290 and two in Crossfire I get very smooth framerates, with much less variance in frame times. But that's probably because the R9 290 has 4 GB of VRAM or because of better optimizations for GCN1.1.
     

  16. Tree Dude

    Tree Dude Master Guru

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    Tearing or not, I never play a competitive multiplayer game with vsync on. It induces a small amount of additional input lag because frames have to wait in order to sync. This is usually fine in a singleplayer game, but can really cost you online.

    You can use D3DOverrider to force triple buffering in DX games. This will mitigate (not eliminate) tearing with vsync off.
     
  17. crz

    crz Member Guru

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  18. dampflokfreund

    dampflokfreund Member Guru

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    That APU+discrete thing under non-goals is damn interesting. The APU could render physics and NPCs, the discrete everything else, that would give a huge performance improvement. Today except for crappy non working dual graphics the APUs are never used in games when a discrete pairs with it, such a waste. But most APUs are still based on the VLIW architecture, so that means Mantle would have to be open for VLIW based architectures.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2014
  19. velocityx

    velocityx Master Guru

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    mantle for me. so much less latency.
     
  20. BravoFxTrt

    BravoFxTrt Member Guru

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    Im liking Mantle the more use it,

    WIN8.1 64bit / Single Vcard.
     

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