Beloved 4AGE Toyota ill...

Discussion in 'The Guru's Pub' started by mythor20, Aug 19, 2011.

  1. mythor20

    mythor20 Active Member

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    Hey there,

    Before I go into detail, any Toyota specialists out there who knows the 1989 Twincam 4AGE engines and ignition systems very well.


    I am posting here cause I am sick of subscribing to other forums and the first one after typing the whole story wanted money the ^&%$!!!

    I love my Guru3d, anyone mind if I try and get advice here?
     
  2. IcE

    IcE Don Snow Staff Member

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    There are many here who know cars very well, but probably not that specific motor. Although I doubt it's much different from most motors. What is the problem exactly?
     
  3. mythor20

    mythor20 Active Member

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    I have a Toyota Corolla GLI Twincam 16V(4A-GE) AE92. Electronic ignition/Fuel injection. 22 years old. Had the distributor replaced a year ago, genuine part. A while ago the fuel pump.

    It starts no problem first thing in the morning, winter here now about 3 degrees celcius.

    Unfortunately for the car my work is only 2 kilometers from home, so nothing has really warmed up substantuially. If I want to go out after an hour or two later it starts then splutters and dies straight away. At the end of the work day (7 hours later)I manage to get it started by revving the ^&%$ out of it cause I sense it wants to die (the problem aint so bad).

    On other occasions after a 30 km drive or so it starts again immediately no problem.

    This is getting progressively worse as I would wait a few seconds and it would start, lately a few minutes.

    I have tried arming/disarming my alarm a few times, and to turn my ignition on and off a few times to rule out relays to see if it might be the relays which cut out the power to fuel pump and to ignition but it did not help, the alarm is about 5 years old but made of good bosch german relays.

    Any ideas? If only it had the problem all the time, it would make it easier to diagnose but of course then I would be stranded.

    Can anyone help, I am thinking of tapping the relevant relays in the engine compartment when this happens again, I do smell unburnt fuel so it is more likely it is a ignition problem, what say you all?

    The starter is good as it spins freely no problem, there might be one slightly lose HT lead on the plug itself but then why does the engine run most of the time.

    I must add, once the engine starts and runs it gives no problems at all. I do have one other problem which may be associated with it, months before this problem occured, my idling revs are about 3-400 higher than they should be, maybe I must replace the HT leads (ignition leads) as they are original can you believe it!
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2011
  4. Gazebo

    Gazebo Master Guru

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    Bad compression? Piston rings worn out? Hot engine starts better as everything is thermally expanded. Cold engine not starting because clearances between piston rings and liner are bigger.
     

  5. mythor20

    mythor20 Active Member

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    Sorry, you did not read my post well at all, give it another go?
     
  6. Gazebo

    Gazebo Master Guru

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    When you're turning your ignition key, and problem is there, you're pushing your acceleration pedal and what happens then? Car starts or still its a no go?
     
  7. mythor20

    mythor20 Active Member

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    I have one of THE best engines ever! No compression issues I know of, the engine is good for 500 000Km's! I have now done about 346 000Km's.

    Yes, the compression and wear and tear will have had an effect but this is not the current problem at hand.

    As I said in my second post once it starts it runs fine, no actually, once the car has started it runs like a dream, as if it were brand new!
     
  8. mythor20

    mythor20 Active Member

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    The problem seems worse I think... it runs for less of a time period then it wont start at all.

    Thats when I smell the unburnt petrol...

    But then after a few minutes of frustration I end up starting her while livid, revving the %^&* out of her, then she settles down.

    Sorry, the short answer is still no go.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2011
  9. Gazebo

    Gazebo Master Guru

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    OK, maybe its something with air/fuel correlation during start-up period.
    I must say I really dont know your particular engine. Just trying to figure it out as it was some generic engine...
     
  10. malky

    malky Master Guru

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    You have the same problems as me I think (2.5km commute).

    You probably have a bad o2 sensor (or any sensor) or fouled plugs because of your short drive your car will not get off cold idle and constantly run rich, your 30km drive will probably be enough to burn off some of the carbon buildup that develops because of your short drives. Try pulling one of your spark plugs and have a look.

    I don't know if you can get it where you live but I run Seafoam thru my engine every six months because of my short drives and it helps me tremendously (smoother idle, better throttle response and better mileage)
     

  11. mythor20

    mythor20 Active Member

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    Maybe it is suffering from air starvation somehow, I must check that the (I used to know the terminology) main air inlet flap thingy is not sticking or something weird...

    Also, I should replace the spark plugs/spark plug leads, they might be the reason the revs are a bit higher as well...

    Strange no other problems once started except for few higher revs, sometimes these higher revs drop to normal...

    On the bright side, I have the Haynes manual but it only states to check:

    Insufficient fuel reaching engine (don't think so)
    loose or faulty electrical connections in ignition circuit (maybe but where do I start!)
    vacuum leak at throttle housing or inlet manifold (maybe but a real bitch to diagnose)
    blocked injector (don't think so)
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2011
  12. Pill Monster

    Pill Monster Banned

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    It's could be your plugs, when was the last time you changed them? Ideally they should be replaced about every 20,000km.

    The airflap thingy is called an Air Filter, and yes it wouldn't hurt to check it. More likely plus though if it runs bad when cold and ok when hot.

    4AGE is carby iirc.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2011
  13. mythor20

    mythor20 Active Member

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    Umm, no, I was referring to the main butterfly flap(air intake valve) which is activated by pressing on the accelerator pedal, surely this cannot be the air filter lol. Come on, give me some credit...

    Folks, I forget the names but I am no novice to this...
     
  14. bigpipe

    bigpipe Watson Guru

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    I must add, once the engine starts and runs it gives no problems at all. I do have one other problem which may be associated with it, months before this problem occured, my idling revs are about 3-400 higher than they should be, maybe I must replace the HT leads (ignition leads) as they are original can you believe it!
    And idling problems at times.

    Possible MAF sensor or throttle posistion sensor. Have a obd 2 diagnostic done. See if you have o2 sensor going lean or too rich on mixture.

    edit err sorry ijust saw how old this is not odb 2

     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2011
  15. mythor20

    mythor20 Active Member

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    Pillmonster, why are you trying to be clever, you are making yourself look bad, the engine is electronic ignition!
     

  16. Pill Monster

    Pill Monster Banned

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    Don't behave like an ass, we have enough here already.


    Butterfly flaps are only found on engines that have carburettors, and they are located underneath the air filter. If your car has one, then it's not fuel injected. You sound very much like a novice to me.
     
  17. mythor20

    mythor20 Active Member

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    Are you referring to the MAP sensor, it rings a bell, I will do more reading in my manual, I think fist step is to change the sparkies, the idiots who also service Porsches who last replaced my distributor, all know it all cowboys might have used the wrong spark plugs the idiots!! The spark plugs they might have used are for other toyotas not the high resistance variety my high performance engine should have but they have been in my car for just over 10 000 kms already ......

    It needs new spark plugs, tightening of that one lead to fit tightly on the one plug and then a CO2 mixture check/idling and timing.

    Then I must test her? If the problem persists then I must check the vacuum hoses on manifold (god help me) and the checks the last poster advised me on (MAP sensor etc.)
     
  18. mythor20

    mythor20 Active Member

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    Go away Pillmonster, please!
     
  19. eat@joes

    eat@joes Maha Guru

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    Sounds like you might have a bunch of carbon buildup. I had the same exact symptoms on my old Jeep Wrangler.

    What I did was open the throttle body and poured a bit of seafoam directly in it while revving the engine. Actually the throttle body will open when you rev. A minute later half the neighborhood was filled up with white and black smoke :) It's A LOT of smoke. Do this at night or you're going to freak a lot of people out.

    Some people completely disconnect the manifold lines feeding their cylinders to do it but I just popped off the intake valve to the throttle body and it worked fine and was way less work. If your car is mucked up more than that then you may just need to take it in to a shop for a complete tune up.

    After your pour a bit in and let it smoke up the place for a minute or two and you're about half way full on the can give it a hefty amount and let the engine stall. Let the stuff sit in the manifolds and engine to eat away at the build-up. Pour the rest of the can in to your gas tank. This will clean out your fuel injection system. There is also cleaner available you can use to put in your gas tank once in a while but this is just another way of doing it.

    I also recommend doing an oil change and replacing your spark plugs at the same time or shortly afterward because this cleaning is going to loosen up a TON of crap from your engine that's going to junk up your oil.

    Never had trouble starting again after that.

    Keep in mind I had my butterfly valve connected to the engine with auto goop ;) I'm not a huge car aficionado but I know how to keep them running.

    @Pillmonster: The butterfly valve is actually use as a vacuum to control your air pressure based on your speeds. Most newer intake systems don't use them since it's all sciency and stuff now, but keep in mind he has a 22 year old vehicle. Advanced cold intake systems and O2 sensors weren't commonplace then.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2011
  20. bigpipe

    bigpipe Watson Guru

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    If you have carbs not fuel injection you may just need some tuning and check the choke for the cold star issue.
    that's a lot of age on the carb so a rebuild might even be in order.
    MAP manifold abousolute press or or
    MAF mass airflow sensor
     

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