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Battlefield V Raytracing Features are now enabled (benchmarks)

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Nov 14, 2018.

  1. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    nVidia delivered HW, marketed it as 9Gigarays/s. Developers told very different story (300~400 Million rays/s). They can't even get it working smoothly on 1080p in good IQ without fallback and tricks.
    Raytracing is something you do to be freed from all those tricks, and yet, they are right behind curtains.

    You may have missed all information provided by game developers, but I did not. Feel free to blame game developers, but they do with HW they got. They have been sold same story as nVidia sold to us.
    Any developer with budget and 9Gigarays/s in mind would jump on RTX as many did. I was like Wow, Cool. You could have seen my calculations and then disbelief too as that number would allow full raytracing on 1080p with IQ beyond anything we could dream of... dropping rasterization forever.
    Reality is that no matter what developer do, they have compute budget to cover ~1/7th of 1080p screen in good quality. I say that it's good enough for AO/GI, wildly problematic for reflections as controlling number of reflective surfaces on screen is hard. Especially if there may be reflective surface reflection.
     
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  2. D3M1G0D

    D3M1G0D Ancient Guru

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    I think the whole Star Wars ray-tracing demo set the bar for this. If Turing was capable of even half that quality at 1080p then RT might be seen as being worth it. As it stands, it can only really handle water reflections at decent speed, which is definitely NOT worth it. This may be more of a testament to the quality of traditional rendering more than anything else, but the differences are so subtle that playing with RTX on (and sacrificing half your FPS) doesn't really make any sense.

    I occasionally see comments from Turing advocates saying how it's amazing that consumer GPUs are capable of real-time ray-tracing, but lackluster results like BFV tell another story. Perhaps the devs will learn to optimize it a bit more but it's definitely not a "it just works" scenario that Huang was marketing. I would love to see a GPU that can ray-trace the entire scene and produce photo-realistic graphics but I think it will be some time before that is realized (at least another couple of GPU generations - and that's just for 1080p).

    I've expressed this opinion in the past, but I think Turing is basically a tech demo for people to get their feet wet. There's a lot of promise in this technology but it's not yet ready for prime time.
     
  3. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Well, Star Wars was good example of few characters inside the box. It was so small scene that they could have pre-render cubemap for reflections into video stream and play it. You would still be able to move camera around and have expected results as animations were fixed. Over years we have seen great feats of rasterization as long as scene was small enough. Forests scenes where you watch 1080p and are like: "Good Joke, want us to believe this was rendered?" But that was exactly the case. Video material used as source for textures, baked in shadows and therefore result had natural lighting too...


    As for the limitations. I think Metro developers described limitations clearly. And IIRC, Huang did describe intersection check capability of RTX card as rays. I do not think anybody sane would believe that he did not know difference. Especially when he continued with "boxes within boxes" explanation.

    I do not get why people still do not understand that RTX card do not have that advertised computational capability for raytracing. RTX greatly boosted FP16 and INT8. But even then card like Vega 64 mostly sits between RTX 2070 and 2080 depending on math used.

    I did really wonder what kind of instructions DXR expects from GPU to do. Is it INT8 where RTX cards improved over GTX cards by factor of 4? Would be lovely to have around someone who spends time studying current DXR evolution form technical and implementation perspective. Because only thing I really expect is that DXR does not expect nVidia's proprietary HW. Not even MS is that stupid.
     
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  4. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

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    When reading your posts guys I got the impression that Turing itself is made for RT, sure, but not to be used as a single card, but more that big board that Jensen held up during the keynote. It was probably never released with the idea of producing decent frame rates for home gaming, but the chip itself was made to be plastered onto a PCB and sold like those GV100 boards with 4 or 6 of those on one board. THAT's what it might have been built for in the first place, it may have never been aimed to render anything at home with >60fps.
     

  5. Camaxide

    Camaxide Member

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    You are right, depending on how many people was doing the last survey the values are never 100% accurate - however chances are just as large that the number is wrong in the other direction... so mean value is still correct. And if you havent done the survey that was part of the last statistics, then your stats is simply not included in the steam statistics anymore.. What makes you think they would just reuse the old statistics and add the newer ones...? When you make a new statistic update all old data is scrapped.. else it would not be statistics :)
     
  6. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    I saw SP just now. With commentary from someone who spends time with historical materials. I was not buying CoD for last few years. After this trash, BF follows.
    Why would I care if they make raytracing working at decent fps, I can't support this kind of evil.

    It is never too late to press reset button. "Substance over style."
     
  7. JoonyDoom

    JoonyDoom Member

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    Battlefield V 1440p runs choppy with DX12. RTX ON single player really isn't playable. Multiplayer the 2080 RTX ON just crashes on me. However DX11 on 2080 is most excellent buttery smooth. Throwing the RTX ON switch to the on position was like powering up Frankenstein but he still is not alive.
     
  8. omagic

    omagic Member

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    well... no , that doesnt convince me a bit. As for now RTX is soo awesome that theres1(ONE!) playable game using it, it is killing the performance and GPU's providing it are way too expensive(i graduated math/inf like 10 years ago so im afraid im not too ypung :( :p )
     
  9. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

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    This is a pretty ignorant comment in itself.

    I'm among the crowd that really doesn't care about the "eye-candy" in games. Ray-tracing will never change that. If the story line for the game is horrible, ray-tracing will not fix it. If the gameplay mechanics are horrible, again, ray-tracing won't fix it. Ray-tracing is not a magical "fix-all" for piss poor story or crap game play mechanics. This is why game studios get away with releasing such crap games. Because too many "gamers" care more about visual effects than the actual game play and story line. Visual effects should enhance a game, not be the sole focal point you're making them out to be.
     
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  10. JoonyDoom

    JoonyDoom Member

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    I was actually impressed that RTX ON almost works now on Battlefield 5. Was playable at 2k at *ok* frames and looked sweet, least till it crashed after about 10 minutes of play. I am amazed how bad DX12 it is so very choppy. Does not give me much hope for RTX as DX12 is just as bad and probably why RTX is crashing. DX 11 forever I guess.
     

  11. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

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    Ray-tracing and DX12 are the future. They will both improve over time. However, for most gamers that actually focus on game play and story, neither will be "make or break" features. There are more of us that are interested in the actual game, than there are those that sit and stare at the scenery....
     
  12. tensai28

    tensai28 Maha Guru

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    Actually the problem is more of that this engine performs poorly with dx12 on nvidia cards. Take a look at other games on this engine; battlefront 2 and battlefield 1. Both of these are unplayable on dx12 for nvidia. Even the devs recommended dx11 for nvidia cards on battlefront 2. Games like mankind divided and shadow/ rise of the tomb raider however all work great with dx12. Seems odd that they would pick this game to be the first to demonstrate ray tracing when it clearly has issues with dx12. I still think ray tracing might be somewhat do-able with other games but really isn't going to be practical for another generation or two.
     
  13. Aura89

    Aura89 Ancient Guru

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    I'm sorry that you don't understand how new technology is always slowly adopted.

    Nothing ignorant about it, it's plain and simple sad that people don't understand technology, but come to a forum like this and make posts that seem like they do, and then all of the sudden, poof, something like ray tracing comes out that will revolutionize game development and game quality, and out come the people who have zero clue or care to understand what it means but talk badly about it because of their uneducated "opinions".

    It's plain and simple, sad.
     
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  14. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

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    Speaking of uneducated opinions....

    You make it sound like Ray Tracing, on it's own, is going to magically make game play and story better. It won't. All Ray Tracing will do, is make games more visually appealing to those that care to pay the price premium for it. If the story line for the game is poorly developed, adding Ray Tracing is not going to improve it. If game play mechanics suck, adding Ray Tracing is not going to improve it. Ray Tracing is purely visual. It will ultimately do nothing to improve game quality. A crap game will always be a crap game, regardless of how great the image quality is or how realistic the scenes look. If the story line and game play mechanics are both complete crap, the game will simply be pretty looking crap.
     
  15. BlackZero

    BlackZero Ancient Guru

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    I don't think some people quite understand why they play games anymore.

    It's meant to be a form of entertainment, like watching a great movie or reading a classic book.

    I grew up reading books or the odd movie when we were allowed, and only really played games in the arcade. My parents sure as hell weren't going to buy me a gaming console in the 80s, so it wasn't until I was in my teens that I could afford to buy one myself.

    Point being, if you get the majority of your kicks from seeing 'realistic graphics', you'd have a lot more fun by simply going outside.
     
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  16. Yxskaft

    Yxskaft Maha Guru

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    If the public opinion of raytracing is to change, the tech simply has to prove itself for gaming. As it is now, the majority of the public considers it too an expensive feature that doesn't improve the game over the traditional and cheaper rasterization techniques.
    Until the hardware for raytracing has advanced enough that it can be enabled with a minimal performance impact, or a revolutionary game comes out which shows game-changing aspects only possible with raytracing, its status as a novelty feature for the enthusiasts is unlikely to change.

    I must also say, IRL I've never seen as strong water and snow reflections as in BFV using raytracing.
     
  17. BlackZero

    BlackZero Ancient Guru

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    Real life isn't historically accurate. :D
     
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