Battlefield V Launches Early - Shows No GeForce RTX Support

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Nov 9, 2018.

  1. Monchis

    Monchis Maha Guru

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    You could get 100% increase in Rt power every new proper node... but by 1.5nm you would barely have 2080ti rt performance on mainstream $250 cards... and who the hell is gonna want to play games at 1080p with mediocre framerates by year 2030, rt is a joke.
     
  2. vbetts

    vbetts Don Vincenzo Staff Member

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    On topic please.
     
  3. moab600

    moab600 Ancient Guru

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    There is one question that remains unanswered.

    Why nVidia rushed the RTX series? it had and still has zero RTX games, and no DLSS, what they were afraid of?

    AMD competition is light at best(mid to low end, which nvidia still sells better due to name and\or performance), Pascal saturated the market pretty well, and the 1080TI is still a powerhouse.

    My theory, is that nvidia wanted to cash in the last 12nm cards before AMD could respond with 7nm, unless nvidia knows something we don't.

    I can't help feeling, that this whole RTX series, is a rushed job to prevent something bigger that might come in early 2019.
     
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  4. Silva

    Silva Maha Guru

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    If you wanted the performance that much and could afford it, good for you mate.

    I used to buy games at full price (BF1942 and both expansions, BF Vietnam and Battlefield 2), but I don't like the DLC model and where the franchise was going. Eventually bought BFBC 2 and expansion for less than 10€. Played for a few years. Bought BF3 for 2.5€ and played for years. Now Bought BF1 with DLC for 5€ and will play for a couple years. I haven't missed out on anything ;)

    I admire you and all the people who are financially comfortable, I'm not jealous.
    How much have you donated, this year, to a charity organization? For taking care of orphans, cure cancer, or other stuff?

    If I (or anyone else) wanted serious performance, I'd be the first to point at a 1080Ti. I'm just more conscious and like to buy the best price/performance because that's the best choice for your wallet and the market. Having more money for other things is important if you don't have an unlimited budget, but not fuelling unbalances on the market like what we have with the GPU industry right now is also important to me. I'd rather sit with a budget card over helping Nvidia grow even more greedy. I was an Nvidia fanboy, I had a 9800GTX and all other GPU's up to 2013 were Nvidia. But people get educated, some at least.
     

  5. Darren Hodgson

    Darren Hodgson Ancient Guru

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    I cannot express how glad I am that I was put off not only by the ludicrous pricing but also the way that NVIDIA put up pre-orders of the RTX cards a month ahead of their launch and, more importantly, any reviews. Now over a month later, I read about quality control issues with the RTX 2080 Ti and there still is nothing to showcase those premium RTX features outside of a handful of tech demos. This whole launch screams RUSHED to me and I can only assume they've done it to please their shareholders because, let's face it, no-one else was shouting out for new GPUs at the back end of 2018.

    To be honest, I'm extremely disappointed in NVIDIA as someone who has been buying their graphics cards since 1998 (the only AMD card I've owned is the HD 5870, two in fact for CrossFire, when the GTX 480 turned out to be a letdown and an HD 3850 at the end of my AGP PC's life). Their pricing is getting ridiculous, especially when you consider than 12 months on there will be better hardware released. It makes paying £700 never mind £1,100+ really off-putting. It doesn't help either than AMD offer no real competition in the high-end GPU sector either.

    I will wait for 2019 and see what the rumoured 7nm Turing cards bring to the table. However, I personally would rather have the traditional GPU upgrade with a 25-40% speed improvement over the last WITHOUT the RTX features because I suspect that unless AMD and the next-gen consoles bring their own versions that this technology will be underused by developers, like most of NVIDIA's proprietary tech, and limited to just a handful of major releases, those sponsored by NVIDIA. I would rather have paid £700 for a GTX 2080 Ti as at that price I would certainly have bought one even if the reality is that I don't actually need one. Those RTX features right now are useless and by the time there is anything of note using it there will be better hardware out. Earlier adopters will be basically testing the tech.

    And for all the hype over DLSS, it doesn't change the fact that what it does is basically run 4K games at a sub-native resolution, likely to offset the fact that when used with the raytracing features of the cards the framerate will be hit hard. Sure, the tech is impressive but the resulting image is not true 4K anymore that the checkerboard rendering of the PS4 Pro and Xbox One X are. It's something that would be cool to have on cheaper, less powerful RTX cards for sure but on a £1,100 flagship card? No, I would expect that to handle raytracing at native 4K on at least the High preset in supported games.
     
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  6. kings

    kings Member Guru

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    It's simple, without any competition, Nvidia can play as much as they want, without major consequences of losing customers to AMD.

    I've said before, in my opinion these RTX cards are Nvidia testing the waters until 7nm reaches volume production. There would be no better time for "testing" new technology, since the competition is literally zero.

    If RTX cards fail hard, no harm done, because AMD have nothing. So, the timing is perfect for this.
     
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  7. moab600

    moab600 Ancient Guru

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    Stupid way to test the waters, but yeah AMD pose zero threats to high end atm...

    Yet, the RTX launch is the worst one in years, there is zero reasons to buy this cards, totally zero, even with the performance uplift of 2080TI.

    The quality control issues, awful price, unproven new features, uncertain future... this launch is just horrendous.
     
  8. Mesab67

    Mesab67 Master Guru

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    Nvidia's important primary initial communicators and validators for this launch was always going to be tech enthusiast review sites and, in particular, their forum communities. Clearly, Nvidia will not have launched this blindly but for them to very publically fail on so many well-described critical points has almost certainly crossed into gross incompetence grounds. Interestingly, this launch has also negatively and again, publically, polarised communities into those for whom excessive cost was never going to be a factor and those, for a great deal of valid/sane reasons, would never stomach such a purchase. It may very well be argued (and undoubtedly successfully) that this former affluent group would always find little return in the great efforts (hugely appreciated!!) reviewers put into their work since, when cost is not a factor, the only question being asked is: is this product the best? 'Pass Go, go straight to Conclusion'. It's also interesting that so many in this same group have 'apparently' very little interest in the missing RTX functionalities...thus throwing away this layer of purchase justification. A little more honesty here might sit better.

    Since the vast majority of customers place primary emphasis on value, I can categorically state that Nvidia will have lost a significant number of customers over this, and very rightly so. They will be very actively looking at reviews on sites such as guru3d and the thoughts of their expert communities (including tom's). I do hope Nvidia learns their lesson, fast.

    Not quite, you might be surprised at the number of additional potential customers very interested in a 1080/ti successor at this time. Unfortunately, Nvidia have now lost the significant revenue and free advertising from this group, and most certainly their loyalty once the competition catches up.

    Note: without exception, we all welcome innovation and technology advances and thus we equally appreciate how Nvidia have tried to bring RT (clearly, the primary selling point) to the masses. Unfortunately, their execution of this launch will undoubtedly backfire somewhat. Being in a position to take a hit on launch prices (the sensible option) - and then doing the opposite - will not be lost on most folks.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2018
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  9. BangTail

    BangTail Ancient Guru

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    At the most expensive level, I don't think price/performance is a very big factor at all for most people (it's a fairly small demographic), generally, very high end buyers just want the fastest GPU.

    Where I will agree is that there probably is a price that will make even high end buyers stop and think twice about purchasing but $1200.00 isn't it, Nvidia knew this from the Titan line.

    Look at the 7980XE, a $2000.00 CPU, and definitely not the best CPU for gaming, but go look at the 3DMark HOF, most of the high scores are held by that CPU, the price did not stop people from buying it despite the fact that when it was announced, there was vocal outrage.

    I've spoken to a lot of 2080 Ti owners, none of them care that much (if at all) about RT, the secondary interest after performance was in DLSS, not RT.

    They knew going in that RT wasn't going to be properly implemented through these cards, they just wanted the 40% performance jump.

    If the 2080 Ti didn't have that 40% performance jump, I might not have bought them, that was the deciding factor for me, not RT.

    I don't think it has anything to do with people's 'honesty', I'm certainly not being deceptive when I tell you I don't care about RT, I don't, and it never factored into my decision to buy these cards.

    I'm interested to see what DLSS brings to the table but RT isn't going to be a thing this gen, give it some time and it will no doubt become a lot more relevant.

    As far as youtube 'reviewers' go, I wouldn't trust most of them further than I could throw them; I'll take my own first hand experience with hardware over theirs any day, and with places like Amazon, it's very easy to return something if it doesn't meet your expectations.

    If a person enjoys having the latest and greatest and can afford to indulge themselves, then why shouldn't they?

    Finally, you can't 'categorically state' anything as fact when you don't have any facts to back up what you claim, what you are postulating is your opinion, nothing more, nothing less.

    Edited so as not to offend people who try to pretend that they don't know what 'enthusiast level hardware' means ;)
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018
  10. fr33k

    fr33k Ancient Guru

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    EA says that RTX will be in a patch closer to the deluxe edition release.
     

  11. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Don't redefine meaning of being enthusiast. Enthusiast may be running linux on arm. Being enthusiast has nothing to do with wallet.
     
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  12. warlord

    warlord Ancient Guru

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    Best comment in guru3d, ever. Amen to that.

    A rich or just an easy living person, who is enabled to give thousands of dollars is not necessarily an enthusiast. It is irrelevant.

    I am not the same as a random man whose 10000+ or more are like mine 1000 or 100 €/$.

    Knowledge level and the hours spend in front of monitor defines enthusiasm. I have many degrees plus spending 12 hours or more every day in my pc or mobile/laptop. People like me belong to pc master race, not benchmark race.
     
  13. BangTail

    BangTail Ancient Guru

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    Don't take what I said out of context please, enthusiast level video cards specifically relate to high performance parts which inevitably come with a high price tag, I was very clearly not talking about the Merriam Webster definition of the word.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018
  14. Mesab67

    Mesab67 Master Guru

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    I'd politely suggest that being being an enthusiast has no connection, whatsoever, with being in a position to afford the best. To be an enthusiast should be free for all. I'd then suggest that the phrase "enthusiast level video cards" would not sit well with most folks here.
     
  15. BangTail

    BangTail Ancient Guru

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    So right after I ask that you not take something out of context, you intentionally take it out of context again.

    We all know what 'enthusiast level hardware' implies, so let's not pretend to be offended by it (I didn't coin the phrase jfyi :rolleyes: )

    If you prefer 'expensive GPU', I'm more than happy to use that :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018

  16. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Rly? "At the enthusiast level, I don't think price/performance is a very big factor at all for most people (it's a fairly small demographic), generally, enthusiasts just want the fastest."

    Describing enthusiasts as group of people who care little about price/performance ratio as long as it is fastest?

    Who is gun enthusiast? Is it guy with most expensive gun or guy who learns 1st and last about tons of different guns?
    (Sometimes it is good idea to check actual meaning of word even if you think it comes from your native language as often words come from somewhere else and time/society shifts them.)
     
  17. morbias

    morbias Don TazeMeBro Staff Member

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    I know it's fashionable these days to be offended by pretty much anything and everything, but you can blame nvidia for that as they traditionally referred to their flagship cards as 'enthusiast class', that was their marketing tactic and I guess it stuck.

    And AMD and Intel have also used the same term as a synonym for performance, thought I'd better get that in before I get accused of being brand-ist...
     
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  18. Alienwarez567

    Alienwarez567 Active Member

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    Its quite simple, they should have made a card for people who want the RTX stuff and then just created a GTX version for people who wanted improved performance/value, but then again very few would have bought the RTX cards.

    70% price increase for a 30% performance increase on 2 year old tech is just not worth it to me.
     
  19. fellix

    fellix Member Guru

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    Nvidia really bit the bullet on RTX and it only shows how hard (and expensive) is to drive realtime ray-tracing on the edge of the current technology. Maybe it was indeed a bit too early and game developers are still too shy to bet the house as well, on this tech with so many fundamental limitations and so much already invested in the classic render toolchain.
    Here we have Hitman 2 that shows accurate world-space reflections can be achieved (with few compromises) without the expensive RT. And what happened with VXGI? All modern GPUs are already fast enough to handle voxel rasterization for, at least, a decent looking dynamic GI without requiring dedicated hardware like RTX.
     
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  20. DesGaizu

    DesGaizu Ancient Guru

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    Same with BFV and the frostbite engine, their "fake" screen space reflections are very good so much so that the rtx really didn't do that much more apart from been able to reflect things around corners which imo is a bit of a issue in a multiplayer game anyway.
     

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