Ban sales of gas-powered cars?

Well at least electricity is cheap and environmentally friendly to produce and lithium mining has little effect on the environment and the batteries are easy to recycle.

 

No he isn't, at least that's what he has asked.

He asked WHAT are the lies, not WHY are they lies.

If you must ask though. In 2020 Volvo, one of the biggest pushers of the EV is cleaner lie decided to do a lifetime analysis of one of their EVs vs a matching ICE vehicle and their results showed that over the lifetime of the vehicle, so that's from birth right through to death.

https://www.carscoops.com/2021/11/v...nt-more-emissions-than-its-petrol-equivalent/

Their conclusion was that their EVs produced significantly more Co2 during the production phase of the vehicle than an equivalent vehicle. The upshot of this being that to offset the Co2 produced during the production phase of the EV you would need to drive

30,000miles if you were on a fully renewable power source
50,000miles if you were on a mix which is the case with most of Europe and America and
70,000miles if you were on a fully non renewable source as most of the developing world is

So in a certain light or at least in the lifetime value used by Volvo the EV is 'greener'

BUT

Most people are typically limited to 10,000miles a year by a combination of battery leasing rules or and their vehicle insurance, this is no doubt down to the typical per year mileage for the UK being 10,000miles meaning that you would need to own the vehicle for 3 years at least to offset it's C02 emissions. Most people in the UK typically lease or own a vehicle for 3 to 5 years which means the vast majority of owners will never offset the initial Co2 output of their vehicle before they move on and start over and unlike an ICE vehicle where if you wish to make the vehicle go further you just stick a bigger fuel tank in it at negligible additional production cost to the environment the situation only gets worse with EVs the further you want the vehicle to go, as a vehicle that goes further requires a significantly larger battery pack which in turn produces significantly more Co2 in it's production.

You know what you're right I paraphrased as it isn't really 'global warming' any more is it? It's either climate change or sustainability or renewable or some other umbrella statement that all fits under the old school 'global warming' banner

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ericma...the-world-with-gigafactories/?sh=32bface92de8

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/05/elon-musk-teslas-work-is-important-to-the-future-of-the-world.html

Two articles with Elon Musk claiming exactly this though.

The battery in that mower, where did it come from? How much went in to it's production? What about it's transportation and installation costs? What happens when that battery dies in three to four years rendering the mower useless in half the time a petrol or plug in mower would last? Does the entire mower have to be binned or can you replace it and if so what went in to the production of that battery? How much did it cost to make? What costs were involved in getting it to you and what costs are involved in the recycle or disposal of the battery it is replacing? or you could just get a plug in non battery mower and cut out the middle man entirely.

 

I wish you people would realise what the hell is going on....
This is agenda 21 / 30

Digital id + digital currency +social credit score = trap.
This will control and monitor everything you do and it will be tied to social credit score and if you don't meet the target you are cut off.
In china then give you points for snitching on your neighbour.

So many people clueless.

 

Lol.. so after 50,000 miles it's more efficient than a ICE vehicle? Sounds like a win.. especially when you consider this is a relatively new technology being produced a rate far lower than traditional ICE vehicles.

It doesn't matter how many miles the average person drives per year or over the duration of the lease -- all that matter is if the car travels to whatever the breakeven point is during it's lifecycle. It's not like the vehicle get's destroyed after 3 or 5 years - it's sold/auctioned as used. What percentage of cars make it to 50,000 miles before being recycled/destroyed?

Edit: Average UK car is 8.4 years old and average driving distance per year is 7400 miles. Which puts us at about ~62,000 miles.

In US average car is about 12 years and average driving distance per year is 13476 miles.. which puts us at about ~160,000 miles.

As both countries start shifting more towards renewables and better battery technology the EVs just get more and more efficient over traditional ICE vehicles.

It's still global warming they just rebranded it for the console tards that can't understand why it's still snowing in their backyard if the earth is heating.

I don't really feel like looking for a full lifecycle analysis but a quick google search shows that traditional lawn tools, even 4 stroke lawn mowers, put out more pollution per hour than a Ford F-150 Raptor... in fact a 2 stroke leaf blower emitted 300x the raptor. So I can't imagine any of those questions really matter when it comes to reducing pollution from these devices.

 

Just a note for hydrogen fuel, the extraction of hydrogen for the quantity used relies on hydrocarbons meaning, it's largely from fossil fuels. The main process used is from methane along with water and electricity, with waste products being carbon dioxide.

There are "green" methods which rely on only water and electricity (so if the electricity used is from green sources such as wind/solar/hydro etc, the problems with producing hydrogen for fuel is lessened but sadly for the quantities required, it's not good enough yet.

 

Lot of words to tell me the electric vehicle is greener. Honestly you've really educated me because I would've told you that if you were in a place with really really dirty power, like in the developing world, I might've guessed that the electric car would never reach that break even point. I'm glad you showed me I was wrong and that, even with the dirtiest possible mix of electric power, the car will be greener before the warranty runs out.

Thanks

 

Have cars manufacturers agreed upon some standarda regarding EV charging plugs?
Have they agreed about swappable battery design and interchangeable ones?
Have they promised upon contracts with clear bold letters that they will NOT disable features, nor put the car buyer in dire situations when monthly payments will be delayed (for reasons)?
I guess not.

 

They have, it's called the Combined Charging System and every manufacturer of note uses it except Tesla

The rest I'm not sure how any of it is specific to or about EVs. Transmissions and engines aren't easily swappable so I'm not sure why the battery, most of which will last 10-20 years and 150k miles, has some arbitrary requirement to be easily swappable. I want to note that in the US, an EV battery has a longer warranty than almost any manufacturer offers on their powertrain, 8y/100k miles. They're not something that just dies every 4 years.

 

Batteries lose capacity during their life though.
The mileage you get during the first year will only be repeated (under the same conditions) with a new battery.

 

A quick search for used SUVs on Autotrader brings up 130,000 vehicles of that number 91,000 of them are under 50,000miles.... so only a quarter of vehicles being sold on auto trader have reached the break even point and it's not like they stop making new cars now is it? So the question is where are all these high mileage cars? I can't see their suddenly being a huge increase in high mileage cars just because people start buying EVs.

You also have the fact that the break even point I gave comes from Volvo and it comes from a car with a pathetic range of 210miles. The offset value increases significantly the more batteries / i.e range you want from the vehicle.

 

I don't really follow the logic with this post. Why are you only searching SUVs? EV's come in multiple model types. I'm sure there's a point where a vehicle gets so old you don't try to sell it - you run it until it breaks down, so I'm not sure searching used cars is really useful. Also what do you mean they don't stop making new cars? What does have to do with anything? If in the future all the new cars are EV they just get cycled through the channels like every other vehicle?

Regardless I find it extremely hard to believe that over 50% of cars are destroyed before 50,000 miles which is what you're suggesting here.

Volvo's vehicle range is a product of their design.. Tesla/Ioniq 5 have similar sized batteries and get significantly better mileage. I'd be curious to see a similar study out of Tesla who has far more advanced battery production/technology... which leads me to also say that battery technology has improved and will continue to improve at a rate much faster than ICE technology...where efficiency was mostly plateaued (decreased in the US actually) until government action in the 2000's. In fact most of the recent upticks in MPG from ICE engines/car designs are just products of companies/institutions you claim are lying anyway. Similarly as countries begin to switch more and more to greener energy sources the break even point just gets smaller and smaller for EVs - including EVs that are already produced, which is impossible to accomplish with ICE engines.

 

My question was about swappable battery, allowing a second hand EV have its battery replaced by manufacturer or a authorised, certified third party.

And the battery's connection with the car interface, being standardised. Think Apple SSD for Macs, looks the same, but have different pinout and that simply puts the user into Apple's walled garden with high prices.

How about a standardised battery-car interface, allowing owner pull battery out and insert a fresh battery lack, already charged?
Guess I am asking too much. But this very detail can make the EV fulfill the promise of a more environmentally friendly vehicle.

And haven't mentioned firmware, because that involves a security discussion and that alone can derail the entire thread.

 

most hydrogen is produced from electrolysis today, ie running current through water, that said, there are newer methods of processing natural gas and methane that do not produce Gaseous carbon, instead producing solid carbon, by preventing oxygen from dual bonding to it, carbon is pretty good at bonding to itself thankfully. Its a just a matter of using the right technology. its feasible at scale too.

edit:error

 

I like Hydrogen, we put a flag on the moon using it.

 

Lithium's mining is anything but environmental friendly. Batteries are easy to recycle?
There are details that obviously are omitted, so everyone believes in "green washing".
Just wanted to raise awareness about those details.
I agree on electricity, but still, there are many details to improve on.

 

It would be cool. Tesla tried doing an automated battery swap station. The idea was you could drive the car in and it would swap the entire battery and you could drive away in like 90 seconds or something. Quick googling suggests it didn't work out though.

Anyway, getting away from ICE powered cars is just one of the many many parts in starting to move away from fossil fuel based infrastructure. Has to happen, imperfect as the transition will be initially.

 

My idea from free energy. Use magnets of same polarity to push the blades of a wind generator around, I have furthered this idea with an simple engine design that i think would work.

 

This sentence is the crux where I think @Reardan and I would take issue. It's a similar statement to what laughing ma said.. the fact is that EVs have already fulfilled this promise. There are numerous studies now that show the complete lifecycle of an EV contributes less pollution than a ICE vehicle. These studies include mining the lithium, producing the batteries and potentially recycling them after the car is destroyed. The Volvo one from above is probably one of the most conservative studies and yet still shows the advantages. All the points you're bringing up here would be nice to have, certainly, and would yield additional improvements for EVs, but they aren't required for a more environmentally friendly vehicle.

So yeah sure - standardized battery connections cpuld be a welcome addition but for some designs it would have drawbacks. Tesla for example manufacturers the batteries directly into the car frame now to massively increase frame rigidity, and density while improving battery safety. A replaceable battery design would eliminate those gains. And when Tesla's only lose 7% of their range over 200,000 miles is that worth it? Not sure.

 

Autotrader is where people go to sell cars to...other people. Other people are going to buy those cars and continue driving them, what are you talking about?

 

Fusion is the solution Unfortunately too few resources are being put into the RnD of these reactors which is why they're so far off.

Once we have unlimited power the rest will solve itself...unless it's too late by then.