Bad performance, trying to identify the cause

Discussion in 'General Hardware' started by cabelo3d, Mar 14, 2017.

  1. cabelo3d

    cabelo3d Member

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    Hello, I follow Guru3D for a long time, however never posted before.

    I am facing an issue and will try to get help from the more experienced hardware gurus to try to identify the problem before to proceed to an expensive upgrade.

    I work with 3d projects and bought the pc mainly to render 3d scenes but I am a addicted gamer also.
    I built the actual pc in 2011, I know it is quite old but I am not having a good performance in some situations and would need some help and advice.

    My rig is an Evga X58 Sli Micro mobo, Intel i7 980x 6 core at 4.0Ghz (CPNS Zalman 10x Extreme Cooler), Evga Gtx 1070, 24Gb ram DDR3 1600Mhz Hyper X, Corsair TX850W psu, HAF 932 case, Seagate 1tb Sata 3 (where the Win 10 Pro x64 Os is installed).

    My processor has a weird name tho. It is recognized by the OS as Genuine Intel CPU 000 - 3.06Ghz and over it has ES (stands for Engineer Sample according to the vendor back in 2011).

    In Cinebench I can get the following results:
    CPU 914cb
    Single Core 119cb
    OpenGL 95 fps

    A friend of mine get the following result with a 6700K processor and a Gtx 960 card:
    CPU 859cb
    Single Core 171cb
    OpenGL 120fps

    I hardly need to render 3d in my pc nowadays but I play a lot.
    In render times he same scene renders in 17 min in that 6700k pc and 21 min in mine.
    In games I have a much inferior performance than my friends using 4790K and 6700K processors, even with lower Gpus...

    I play most a racing game called Assetto Corsa and when I compare with friends, a full grid of 23 Ai drivers (which uses lots of physics calculations) I barely get close to 60fps, while in the pc friends never drop below 90.

    Also noticed that if I set the game to Ultra in Full HD I got like 65 to 70 fps and all in lowest settings around 71- 83 fps. I need to understand why this is happening. What is causing it? Simple fact the pc is old or there's anything I could look at first, before decide to upgrade to a newer technology?

    I posted in Assetto Corsa forum and a dev checked the logs and said apart from some external game apps (which I deleted all) he didn't noticed any problems with the game.

    In another games I also have a much worse performance, even comparing to systems built 6 years ago just like mine.

    Any other information you guys need to be able to help, just ask and I will try to make it happen.

    Thanks a lot in advance.

    Would like to post some images of benchmarks I did to try to help but I can't yet due I am a newbie in the forum.
     
  2. INSTG8R

    INSTG8R Maha Guru

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    While it's a "strong" CPU for its era the numbers seem right to me comparing to your friends more modern offerings. Your 1070 is probably hitting a bit of a bottleneck with your CPU.
     
  3. cabelo3d

    cabelo3d Member

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    Hi INSTG8R, so best thing is upgrade for a new technology. Do you think the fact it scores less with single core can be the main cause?
    I see you have a Sabertooth Mobo, I am thinking about to get a TUF Z270 M2, is it a good choice?
    Also, about the memory speeds, if the processor 7700K has native 2133Mhz, what benefit I would get buying faster than 2133 memory modules?

    Thanks for the reply.
     
  4. INSTG8R

    INSTG8R Maha Guru

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    MY last 2 boards have been TUF Sabertooths. Rock solid and the 5yr warranty is just the icing on the cake. RAM Speeds are debatable as far as gains go. Amount of RAM is more important than speed in the big picture. Higher speeds would only really be noticeable in benchmarks.
    Sandybridge(the CPU after yours) was the "leap" in Intels speed gains and everything after has just been small speed increases ever since. So yes your CPU is the "weak link"
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2017

  5. cabelo3d

    cabelo3d Member

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    Is the memory speed important in case of overclock? I intend to buy a 7700k and up it to 5Ghz. Thanks for all the help.
     
  6. INSTG8R

    INSTG8R Maha Guru

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    Memory speed is totally independent from CPU speeds especially when it comes to unlocked CPUs.
     
  7. Abilio_KID

    Abilio_KID Master Guru

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    cabelo3d, I get this with my old but similar system:
    [​IMG]
    So I guess your results seem OK on the CPU part. However, my RAM is at 1266 (OC settings) and my GTX780 should give less FPS than your... 1070?
     
  8. cabelo3d

    cabelo3d Member

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    Pretty much the same performance. I gain only in multithread due more cores.
    You noticed how your 780 performs basically the same as my 1070 (even better)? Also your single core performance is basically the same as mine too.

    And thanks INSTG8R for the info regarding to memory speeds and unlocked cpus.
     
  9. Abilio_KID

    Abilio_KID Master Guru

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    Yeah, that's a bit weird. For the time being I have literally no money to upgrade (not that I feel I need to) but if I would get a better GFX, I was under the impression a 1070 would be an upgrade. I wonder if our CPU's are bottlenecking the cards???
     
  10. Undying

    Undying Ancient Guru

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    Only 121cp for such a heavily overclock? I didnt realize Bloomfield have such a slow ST performance. It start showing its age indeed.
     

  11. cabelo3d

    cabelo3d Member

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    So, Undying you think it can be related to the "age" of it? Like a bad performance due wear? Seems interesting and makes sense.
     
  12. cabelo3d

    cabelo3d Member

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    I am pretty sure they are bottlenecking the vfx cards. Specially because if I play in Ultra settings or Lowest settings I have basically the same performance...
     
  13. Neo Cyrus

    Neo Cyrus Ancient Guru

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    Memory speed having any effect depends completely on what is being run. Often games weren't affected at all by memory speed, but there are a few modern exception (I forget which), which shows they're extremely poorly coded to be that system memory bandwidth dependant.

    Anyway, your weakest link in your system certainly is your Nehalem generation CPU, in terms of instructions per clock it really can't compare to a modern CPU anymore.

    As for recommendations, I highly discourage buying an i7-7700K unless you do nothing but gaming, since the games which are optimized are only optimized for Intel CPUs. I'd recommend an R7 1700 which can overclock to 3.8-4GHz (3.9 is typical from what I've seen so far). It's much more futureproof and if you run games with settings turned up, especially at 1440p, you're going to get the same performance as any other CPU anyway, meanwhile you'd get massive gains in anything heavily multi-threaded.
     
  14. Abilio_KID

    Abilio_KID Master Guru

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    Btw cabelo3d, Assetto Corsa is very heavy if you use maximum settings. You need to tweak them a bit and you won't even notice any difference in visual quality.
    Here's a simple bench (Spa) with full grid and my settings (2048x1152 native):

    [​IMG]
     
  15. cabelo3d

    cabelo3d Member

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    For sure I will benefit from Ryzen in multithreat but my concern at the moment is performance in gaming, specially because I play Assetto Corsa with Oculus Rift which demands a lot from the computer and in multiplayer my system is suffering a lot to deliver a minimum 45 fps (Rift renders using ASW technology that halfs the 90fps to mantain a smooth experience with 45fps and interpolated frames).
    I use to work with heavy 3d projects not only to build scenes but also render them, not nowadays anymore so this is not my actual goal.
    Nehalem was a monster back in the way for 3d rendering when I bought it and I spend lots of money on it, however I earned many times what I have invested.
    Today I need 90fps constant in Rift (main goal) and be able to play other fps titles. I use a 40 inch monitor 1080p and I am not sure but have been hearing that with this resolution the cpu works more, would like to understand why. No budget to upgrade to a better monitor atm..

    I see some benchmarks with Ryzen and it was having not a so good performance in games and I am afraid to invest money and do not solve the main issue or at least not being much satisfied with it.
    Don't think a new build would survive more 6 years so I need to find a good performance/budget compromise, specially here in Brazil where all is so overpriced :(

    Thanks for all tips though! If you have any other considerations please let me know.
     

  16. cabelo3d

    cabelo3d Member

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    Abilio, in Assetto Benchmark I have no problem at all and I can run it with almost all things at max with no problem, but when you go online or against AI the PC suffers. Probably due physics calculations. I have friends that can run it with no problem with 4790K and even an older processor :(

    I found a good compromise but not enough to run it 90fps all the time (Rift refresh rate) while in a Multiplayer section and this is what is killing me.

    I recorded some videos if you are interested in seeying what is happening:

    Youtube (not able to post links or images in the forum yet, sorry).

    Assetto Corsa Ultra and Low settings comparison
    /watch?v=iwsm2nIShN4

    Assetto Corsa Server empty and full fps comparison
    /watch?v=mnktCJEUZp8

    Thanks for you effort!
     
  17. Neo Cyrus

    Neo Cyrus Ancient Guru

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    Well I did a quick search and found a video of someone using an R7 1700 @ 3.9GHz with a GTX 1080 running Assetto Corsa at 1080p and he's getting well over 90 fps, the parts I watched were between 140-160 fps. I did notice however, almost the entire load is on just 2 threads, while the other 14 are pretty much idle or just running background processes.

    Also, he didn't list any settings he used. It was recorded with a camera rather than on the PC so it's hard to tell what the quality is. Maybe he thought it would make it lag, but he does have 14 threads doing almost nothing. :wanker:

    Anyway, I'm not familiar with the Oculus Rift, but I'm assuming you need it locked to 90 fps for vsync? If that's the case, with your GTX 1070 and any modern CPU, particularly overclocked, you shouldn't have any problems. As I already said, I would choose the R7 1700 for all-around use. Only very specific scenarios (unoptimized modern emulators) need every last drop of single threaded performance.

    The video:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVGyGLfB_Ic
     
  18. eclap

    eclap Banned

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    For gaming, you can't go wrong with 7700k. It's a great cpu for gaming, the best, in fact. Overclocked it beats all the Ryzens, comfortably. It's great for AC.

    Ryzen is meh for gaming. And honestly, if you need to render something once a week or so, those extra few minutes compared to Ryzen won't kill you.
     
  19. Neo Cyrus

    Neo Cyrus Ancient Guru

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    True, but in the back of my head I can't shake the idea that, as soon as games become more multi-threaded, Ryzen is going to blow it's similarly priced competition out of the water. I mean the Ryzen game performance is ridiculous compared to what it should be theoretically capable of. It's at an absolute worst case scenario. Not only are games not properly multi threaded, something else that's funky has to be going on as well.

    I'm so glad I'm not upgrading since I use emulators which dump the majority of their loads into a single thread. I'd ideally need a 7700K for the most single threaded performance, but I'd be tortured picking that knowing I do multi threaded tasks as well, so I'd likely pick Ryzen given the option.
     

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