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bachelor's degree versus master's degree versus common sense...your thoughts?

Discussion in 'The Guru's Pub' started by airbud7, Jun 17, 2019.

  1. Clawedge

    Clawedge Ancient Guru

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    I once read a saying that applies here perfectly.

    "Intelligence is not what is known, rather how one applies the known."
     
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  2. scoter man1

    scoter man1 Ancient Guru

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    Being in the CS field myself, I can't see what a master's degree (in CS) would do for you unless you want to do something experimental or very specific like AI or something like that. I thought about going back to get a MBA myself but it costs so much and I don't really see the ROI being there. The class I sat through seemed pretty soft. I think you pretty much pay for networking opportunities. Hey, I mean that might be what you need to rocket a career forward but to me, at 140k for a top tier MBA, it's a hard sell.

    Honestly, I still question why you need a bachelors to do a programming job.
     
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  3. sverek

    sverek Ancient Guru

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    Stackoverflow is all what really needed. And some ability to put libraries together, so less time punching a keyboard.

    Some big companies with more conservative background tend to care more about employees education background.
    As for me, I don't really care. You either adjust and punch keyboard, or you don't.
     
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  4. scoter man1

    scoter man1 Ancient Guru

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    You are right, some newer companies will "take a risk" on someone with no degree. I imagine it's quite hard to get your foot in the door though unless you have some fairly good github or something to show proof of your abilities.
     
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  5. sverek

    sverek Ancient Guru

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    Yeah, having something to spice up your resume is always nice.

    I am just trying to say that, if I had only experience in front-end and company asks me to write back-end from the scratch, I will have to adjust.
    By end of the day, it's how flexible and adjustable employees are.

    Some say they will need a few month to learn first, others will start googling and coding right away.
     
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  6. scoter man1

    scoter man1 Ancient Guru

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    I wish I had that luck when I was looking earlier this year (got laid off from a big auto company). Everyone pretty much threw me in the garbage can since I hadn't used angular/spring/insert web framework here.
     
  7. sverek

    sverek Ancient Guru

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    I'd say you dodged a bullet there.

    Companies that hire employees just cause they can do a very specific task sounds like a boring place to be in. Sounds more like a part-time job.
    That's probably ALL what they do. Code monkeys doing the same work every day.

    If you have basic knowledge and grasp on IT, you should look for company that does lots of things and not limiting to specific framework or language.
     
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  8. angh

    angh New Member

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    for no experience:
    stupid + no certificate => little chance for good job
    smart + no certificate => below average chance for good job.
    stupid + certificate => above average chance for good job
    smart + certificate => high chance for good job.

    For experienced people:
    your experience history + projects + coworkers opinion from previous engagement = your job chance.

    It is easier to get a good job with a certificate, so it is easier to quickly get valuable experience with certificate.

    Additionally, in IT people with no formal education are less effective as team members as their vocational vocabulary is often not as wide and deep. It will come with time, but I had too often stop my train of thoughts to actually explain to some people what Observer pattern is. Self educated people used to have narrower field of interest and vocabulary in this small area is fine, but outside of that they often struggle. For many projects 'talented individuals' are simply an issue, you have to be a team player and understand wider are of the landscape you work at, and 'smart and common sense' guys achieved a lot by themselves and are less prepared for team effort. And often are very authoritative, not used to receive any form of criticism.
     
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  9. dorsai

    dorsai New Member

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    I've found after 30 years of working in a highly technical profession that there's little correlation between intelligence and having a college degree...even a C student will graduate with the same diploma as a student earning summa cum laude. The ability to regurgitate information is often mistaken for intelligence, when in fact it simply demonstrates knowledge...while providing no proof of someones ability to utilize such knowledge in a practical application.
     
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  10. angh

    angh New Member

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    Student with good results is probably more focused on job, have better time management skills, working harder to achieve his goals and overall is usually a better choice straight after college. I do not need a genius in my team, i need solid team member to rely on. Someone who spent 5 years in college getting good marks and working hard is probably better option than guy who spent this time drinking and sleeping.
     
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  11. SweenJM

    SweenJM Master Guru

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    Depends on what field you want to go in to. In my experience, if you are not in college to achieve a goal that requires a degree, you are wasting time and money. I have been in IT my whole career, and not having a degree has never hindered me ( though i have a pretty hefty stack of certifications).....but that does not mean you will not need one for some things. The degree, whatever it is, is a means to a goal. It is not a great goal in and of itself. If you want to be a particle physicist, then you will need to go to college for your degree or you will never get to touch a cyclotron or any of the other specialized physics equipment. If you want to be a bulldozer driver (which pays pretty awesome) then find someone that has one and have them show you how to use it, then practice. Practice, practice, practice. Experience is the key in any field......some of them require a degree to gain said, some do not. Best advice i can give ( on anything really) is do not acquire a bunch of debt (from student loans or anything else) without a clear plan on how to get out of it. Don't waste time in college. Take it serious and have a goal in mind for your degree.....elsewise you can party AND hold a job and gain experience while you are young and dumb. Many people who run places started out sweeping the floors there.
     
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  12. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

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    So @airbud7 did you watch Good Will Hunting by now? :D
     
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  13. airbud7

    airbud7 Ancient Guru

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    fantastic movie....Thanks for the tip Bro!
     
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  14. GreyDev

    GreyDev Member

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    I also study CS in college. I want to make a carrer in IT in the future and I hope my degree will help me with that task. Anyway I think higher educationgives more opportunities to get a well-paid job.
     
  15. Clanger

    Clanger Member Guru

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    went to the right school => high chance for good job.
     

  16. rm082e

    rm082e Master Guru

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    A degree is one piece of the puzzle. Discipline and hard work are something completely different, and much more valuable. There's no substitute for identifying a problem, taking on the responsibility of fixing it, getting it done, then asking for more.
     
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  17. lmimmfn

    lmimmfn Ancient Guru

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    Degree/Masters/whatever, all that is doing is to move you from the pile of 'not going to get the job' CVs to the pile of 'potentially can get the job' CVs.

    Its kinda nonsense but it allows companies to filter out others as if you have a degree or masters its shows aptitude for learning and even if you know 0 day 1 youre a person who can learn quickly.

    Im not sure on a masters( especially when not bridging between 2 disciplines - bridging makes sense to change fields ), difficult question, it forces you to become specialized in an area without any experience in the field which may limit opportunities afters as over qualified for jobs which would be good for training.

    Most of what you learn at uni at least from my experience( Computer Science ) is only providing you the basic understanding across many fields but very little of it is useful when you're actually in a job as you will end up focused in a field and therefore only 5% of it will apply.
     
  18. DerSchniffles

    DerSchniffles Ancient Guru

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    Having a degree can definitely help but its not everything. Hard work, discipline and applying knowledge can get you pretty far by itself. The job description I just signed for my promotion says it requires a bachelors degree and 5+ years of experience, neither of which I have but I worked my tail off and proved to the company I was worth investing in and it panned out. But....I had to start from the very bottom making barely over minimum wage as I do not have a degree and spent 3 1/2 years to get here. I know for a fact that I am getting paid at the bottom end of what the job title is worth due to the lack of experience and bachelors degree but I am making over double what I started out at and will continue to push. On the other side of things, my best buddy got a bachelors degree in physics with a math\astronomy double minor and it took him almost 2 years to find a job as he was either "too qualified" or no one cared about a physics major. He ended up working at Nintendo being the guy who cleaned grimy Nintendo DS's until he got a job at the place he is at now making almost 6 figures. Took him almost 4 years with a degree to get something that paid him over $15 an hour, and this is in Seattle where the cost of living is bonkers. Needless to say, he struggled for quite a bit.

    I would say its very situational and there are so many variables that its hard to have a definitive answer but having a degree can absolutely help, given that its a degree in something that is applicable.
     
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  19. airbud7

    airbud7 Ancient Guru

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  20. allesclar

    allesclar Ancient Guru

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    My only two pence is you cannot teach life experience.

    Both are valuble imo. I have both.

    Now, back to work :)
     

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