ATX12VO Power Supply Standard gets tested, shows really good IDLE power consumption

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Oct 12, 2020.

  1. Hilbert Hagedoorn

    Hilbert Hagedoorn Don Vito Corleone Staff Member

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  2. Silva

    Silva Ancient Guru

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    Are you saying no more spaghetti in the future? Nice!
    SATA was also revolutionary, felt so good getting rid of the old way of connecting devices.
     
  3. asturur

    asturur Maha Guru

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    Seems weird to me to have the motherbaord responsible for power conversion.
    I see an higher prices on Motherboard, quality issues between brands, new gaming-oc-branding of the motherboards, things you change more often than a good psu.
     
  4. anub1s18

    anub1s18 Member Guru

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    wile i do like the efficiency i can't help but wonder what it'll look like pulling sata and such off the motherboard instead of the PSU ( 1 is in front and center view in an open case, the other is tucked in the basement or back to keep it hidden out of sight).

    also what that might do for motherboard prices as those are already rising quite a bit especially in the higher end / enthusiast area, when i was building my zen 2 system i was waiting for the new crosshair board taking intel's high end Z370/Z390 boards as reference for price, in the end i had to aim lower due to the price hike (i was prepared to spend more to get a board that looks good and is good but not prepared enough to throw down 400+ on the mobo).
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2020

  5. nevcairiel

    nevcairiel Master Guru

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    The majority of current is already being consumed in 12V today. The relatively small consumers in other voltages won't require massive effort for power conversion.
     
  6. nevcairiel

    nevcairiel Master Guru

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    They might introduce a new connector with combined power and data, SATA data is already coming off the board afterall. In fact that kind of connector already exists, its just not used very commonly.

    That said, considering you can get a PC without a single SATA cable these days and still enough storage, none of that would really bother me. My next build is planned for 3 M.2 drives (System+Work+Games) and one remaining SATA drive left.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2020
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  7. k3vst3r

    k3vst3r Ancient Guru

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    Cheaper PSU's incoming then.
     
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  8. asturur

    asturur Maha Guru

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    Isn't the CPU using the 3.3v/5v line too?
    If not, then i agree there isn't much to use there. maybe something around the sound card or the nvme
     
  9. craycray

    craycray Member Guru

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    See the system still needs 3v and 5v to be operational. This new "standard" does not magically negate the need for 3v and 5v. This just moves the conversion to happen on the motherboard now. Which is both good and bad. Good that it reduces the wires from PSU to motherboard, and reduces the cost of PSU slightly, but now you are paying for the conversion cost on the motherboard, so motherboard costs go up by the same margin. This means that rather than paying for 3v and 5v conversion once in the PSU, we will be paying for it in every new motherboard.

    What do you replace more, motherboard or PSU?

    In my case, my PSU has lasted me 3 motherboard generations and is still going strong, so I paid for 3v and 5v conversion only once, rather than paying for it 3 times over. IMHO, this only benefits the OEMs who don't produce the upgradeable systems to start with, and now they are able to reduce wires as well.

    Pick your poison, pay for 3v and 5v conversion once, or every time with new motherboard.

    EDIT: Grammar
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2020
  10. Dragon4570

    Dragon4570 New Member

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    Look at who is pushing this "standard", the same people that require you to upgrade your MOBO every generation anyways. They are probably setting it up for some form of reimbursement from the motherboard and PSU manufacturers.

    Personally I would prefer it to say the way it is so I can build as large or as small of a system that I choose. Not be limited by how much conversion capability the MOBO has for storage connections.
     

  11. GSDragoon

    GSDragoon Master Guru

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    lol, like we'll see any of those cost reduction benefits. PSU makers will just pocket that. At the end of the day, it will be just more expensive motherboards.
     
  12. valentyn0

    valentyn0 Member Guru

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    Intel pushing for new "tech" just to make more $$ by selling over the top new mobos every year? Impossible.
     
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  13. nevcairiel

    nevcairiel Master Guru

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    The primary power for the CPU (and the GPU) is 12v, because thats the only line from a power supply that can actually deliver a high amount of power. Other voltages might be used as supporting voltages, but not under any high load.
     
  14. rl66

    rl66 Ancient Guru

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    To everyone complaining... It's just an industrial tech that reach "normal" market.
    It is really really really nice to work with (i can't remember how many machine i have worked on that have only 12v PSU with motherboard handling voltage for the other things.

    The real question is: Will consumer adopt those (many proved technology from pro segment, failed to seduce mainstream consumers)
     
  15. TLD LARS

    TLD LARS Master Guru

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    It could be nice if everything ran on 12V with local conversion on the unit that uses the power.
    A lot of the ATX wires could be removed and the local 12v to 5v or 3.3v could be perfected in efficiency because the thing that needs it, knows its own power requirement.

    GPU makes its own Vcore, Vmem, 2.5V, 1.8V something, and a couple of other voltages anyway.

    CPU Vcore is made on the mainboard together with memory voltage and chipset voltage, so there is very little left.

    HDD and optical drives need 5v, but most of the power is drawn from the 12v anyway, only some 2.5 inch run on 5v.
    USB still has 5v power, but USB C is trying to change that, with the high voltage negotiation thing going on, when fast charging.

    Having a 5v and 3.3V supply, both at 25Amp, that mostly sleeps anyway is bad for the efficiency.
     

  16. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    so this will introduce lower power consumption when idle? so as possed to the 35 ishwattage idle I get currently it would be 10ish? I all for that. wouldnt such change as the mb have to to converting some "how" raise mb prices?
     
  17. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    The connector seems a little anemic, but, with hardware getting more efficient and more devices integrated into chipsets, I guess you don't really need any more than this. Still, I think 1 more 12v pin would've been good.

    Prices shouldn't change much because there are no high-wattage components for 5v or 3.3v anymore. -5v and -12v haven't really been used since the PCI and ISA days.

    I don't think that was the case for over 20 years. CPUs are entirely 12v now.
    Though to clarify, the CPU's actual voltage is usually under 1.4v, but they feed power through the 12v line.
     
  18. jose2016

    jose2016 Member Guru

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    In the end it will mean somewhat cheaper power supplies and much more expensive motherboards.
    All in all, more money for the same thing.
     
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  19. fry178

    fry178 Ancient Guru

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    So finally the tech sector found a way of copying super sportscar makers, giving you less, for more more money.
    anyone thinking this will make for cheaper psus, not gonna happen.
    they will pocket any possible differences, especially since +90% of consumers wont know that there is one,
    and when i see it took 5 bios updates and days of fine tuning just to get my Gb board to NOT produce any (ram) errors or random crashes,
    makes me weary handing over another thing that (MB) companies can cheap out on/mess up.
     
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  20. Chess

    Chess Master Guru

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    Aren't laptops doing this since the dawn of PC's?

    As for added components making motherboards very expensive, well...
    For years we're used to that: Sound, FireWire, Legacy coms, SataExpress and U.2 of which I've never seen a drive for, 2nd Ethernet, 8 USB ports on one controller, 4 ramslots when most people only use 2, extra molex or PCIe power for overclocking on non premium board, 8 SATA ports with software RAID, 2-3 different display connectors for clearly a gamers - dedicated GPU type of motherboard.
    I can go on.
    We all paid for extra's we'd never need and yet we were okay with that.

    I wouldn't mind going back to add-in PCI(e) cards and USB to pick what you need.

    So bring on that new standard. I'll probably never use HDDs or ODDs in a new pc again.
    Heck, how long did it take the industry to adopt the Sata power connector after ALL HDDs were using Sata?
    Only for the past 2 years or so the Molex power has disappeared and still they provide adapters...

    Same with micro USB and USB-C.
     

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