ATMOS doesn't make sense

Discussion in 'Soundcards, Speakers HiFI & File formats' started by mbk1969, Jul 10, 2023.

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  1. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

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    Last edited: Jul 10, 2023
  2. Trunks0

    Trunks0 Maha Guru

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    Yeah... that kinda makes sense to me. I've been relatively unimpressed by most of the various atmos music tracks I have heard.

    And for HT, I've really not heard allot of people raving about ATMOS at all. So it figures that it's pretty much a bust there as well. Probably doesn't help that I don't think any of the major streaming services support it.
     
  3. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    Atmos makes sense in a wide room (theatre sized) with a high ceiling, it has never made sense in a home lounge.
     
  4. Ormy

    Ormy Active Member

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    I consider myself a home cinema aficionado, I haven't made the jump from 7.1 to atmos yet but I've been wanting to for a while. The comments in the second video about the lack of atmos content in those films was very surprising, and has pretty much changed my mind on atmos.

    The video is three years old though. I'd like to see a similar analysis of more recent titles.
     

  5. Trunks0

    Trunks0 Maha Guru

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    Even though the video is 3 years old, the problem has been around for awhile. The reality is..

    1) Most people do not have ATMOS speaker setups (hell most people don't even have proper 5.1)
    2) None of the popular video streaming services offer it (Except I think Disney+ on some titles)

    and because of that, the mastering for it that reaches a blu-ray is subpar. It might be a different story if the threatre tracks actually reached blu-ray, but I don't think that is happening. It doesn't help that with some simple audio tricks you can make stuff sound great, and 3D, in 5.1/7.1 without vertical speakers anyway.

    *late edit* I googled it, actually Netflix, Prime, Apple TV+ and Disney+ all have some ATMOS content. So I was wrong there.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2023
  6. DerSchniffles

    DerSchniffles Ancient Guru

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    A little late to the party here, but thought I would throw in my thoughts -

    I have a 5.2.2 in my living room that is only for movies (4k bluray/bluray and streaming). Atmos on movies is pretty lacking but by far my favorite thing is the upmixing. Dolby surround for dolby mixes and Neural X for DTS mixes. Both upmixers really enhance the experience, much more than the native spatial audio most of the time and is my go to for most content unless I know it has a killer track (Van Helsing has an absolutely incredible mix for example).

    I also have a 4.1.2 on my pc setup, and you as you can probably guess here, I also use upmixing for most content - especially considering there are not very many Atmos games out there. Atmos games sound considerably better than movies imo, and really do sound incredibly immersive. Cyberpunk 2077, Shadow of the Tomb Raider, Gears of War 5, Metro Exodus, Division 2, and Halo Infinite all sound fantastic with Atmos and really make me wish more games supported it. Gaming is by far the best case scenario for spatial audio imo and is really cool. Upmixing works great for games and is always on for every title. There are obviously some game types it does not do much for, but for any type of fps/tps or open world games it really lifts the sound stage and just puts me in the middle of the game world.
     
  7. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    I havent watched the videos in the OP, this is my take on Atmos.

    Atmos provides object based placement of audio cues that can be more accurately placed in the room space based on the speaker locations configured in the AV system.
    This only helps when the original audio is object based.
    An object is anything that produces sound like an instrument, car, voice, door latch ...
    Each is pre-encoded and placed precisley in the sound field on playback


    Atmos encoding via windows is pointless for AV systems.
    PCM audio is not object based, all Atmos encoding will do is add overhead encoding it to Atmos for the AV system to decode it back to PCM, and might not be as precise as just feeding the PCM directly to the AV system. It most certainly cannot be better because the original audio has to be stripped apart into objects, this will not produce the same quality as having objects with their own quality audio pre-encoded.
    If you want height channels added to your 7.1 PCM audio, the AV system can handle it via a few different methods.
    Theres no need to encode height channels into an Atmos stream from 7.1 or less PCM.

    So yep, windows support of Atmos is pointless for AV systems.
    The only function that Windows 'could' be useful for is decoding Atmos for headphone users into an HRT format.
    But the game or video player should support doing this, however I dont use it so am not sure if windows support is needed.

    Atmos pre-encoded in movies or games is a different story, and can include height channels not available in PCM on a PC.
    (it is possible to have PCM height channels but no AV system supports more than 7.1 PCM so is a moot point. Audio design engineers decided not to take this path.)
    Pre-encoded Atmos doesnt need windows support, the game or the video player bitstreams Atmos audio directly to the AV system.
    I've done both from Windows 7 which has no Atmos support.


    There is a caveat...
    I dont know if any of the following are provided by Windows Atmos support, my quick trial of it didnt find them but they are possible to implement ...

    If you are not happy with your surround output with your speakers final positioning, and have a way to accurately configure the creation of the Atmos stream, there can be more options to shift sound objects around the sound field to perhaps make you a bit happier.
    This wont be simple though, an advanced tool if it exists.

    Its easy enough to have automated methods of expanding the sound field so objects (or areas) appear further out, but this will end up bunching more objects together at the limit of the sound field.
    It might do well for audio that doesnt have much already going on at the edges of the sound field.
    This can also be performed on standard PCM 7.1/5.1 etc without need for Atmos. Modern AV systems provide good options.


    I dont have Atmos support enabled on my machine with Windows 10, it isnt needed.
    Connected to 7.2.4 Atmos system.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2023
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  8. umeng2002

    umeng2002 Maha Guru

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    Microsoft Spatial Audio sounds great in PC games, but I end up using DTS Sound Unbound HRTF and not ATMOS to external speakers or even Dolby Atmos for Headphones.

    Microsoft Spatial Audio will give you sound objects over Atmos with the Dolby Access App or if the game has native Dolby Atmos encoding.

    However, the game itself must actually use 3-D audio to get 3-D sound objects or else it's all just rendered to typical speaker beds.
     
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  9. pegasus1

    pegasus1 Ancient Guru

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    Why i have my favourite films on UHD rather than stream them
     
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  10. umeng2002

    umeng2002 Maha Guru

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    I'm hoping for a program that can take a Dolby Atmos or DTS X sound track off a UHD Blu-ray or from streaming or video player or whatever, and convert it to MS Spatial Sound so I can use DTS Headphone X with it. As I find that sounds much better than Dolby Atmos Headphone.
     
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  11. pegasus1

    pegasus1 Ancient Guru

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    There's a windows Atmos App isn't there? I dont think its free though, or if its any good.
     
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  12. umeng2002

    umeng2002 Maha Guru

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    Yes, but that doesn't make Atmos 3-D sound objects work with everything like MPV or MPC-HC or VLC video files with Atoms tracks... only some streaming services. And even then, I don't like the Dolby Atmos Headphone HRTF effect compared to DTS Headphone X. If an Atmos sound track can be converted into MS Spatial Sound, then DTS or Windows Sonic can be used as the HRTF solution instead of Dolby's.
     
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  13. AssassinXXVII

    AssassinXXVII Member

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    I have a Samsung Q990B and Atmos is great for movies, I've enjoyed scenes when there's raining and thunder and you can really hear the sound above your head. Many movies and shows just weren't made to take full advantage of it.
    Apple Music (Apple TV 4K) is also good, from DJ music style with 3D effects around you, to orchestral type where you can hear different instruments coming from different directions, like if you were on stage. And others in between. More and more tracks now have Atmos. Forget about Atmos with headphones.
     
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  14. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    Atmos in the home is garbage.
     
  15. TheDigitalJedi

    TheDigitalJedi Ancient Guru

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    I've been using DTS-X and Dolby Atmos Soundbars with my gaming computers for years and I've always enjoyed the results. I utilize DTS Sound Unbound and Dolby Access. Gentlemen I have sounds bouncing all over my game room and sometimes get startled when gunshots go off behind me. Lol.

    I went with LG mainly because most of my OLEDS are LG and their bars play/decode far more formats than most manufacturers. My main receiver for my home theater is the Onkyo TX-RZ50. My speakers are Klipsch because the brand is my old and faithful.

    Gentleman, I can assure you that Dolby Atmos, Digital, Home Theater, DTS-X, DTS-X Ultra, DTS-X Home Theater are definitely not a waste in the home. I get far more enjoyment and sound articulation from my home theater system than a local theater can provide.
     

  16. NvidiaFreak650

    NvidiaFreak650 Master Guru

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    Yup that the difference I found between DTS Sound Unbound app and Dolby Access app, one app encodes the audio in real time while the other does not, that why I like DTS Headphones:X over Dolby Atmos for Headphones.
    Screenshot 2024-04-01 202503.jpg

    Yeah, I used to had Dolby Atmos set up but switch to DTS X which give you the same Dolby Atmos sound feel without height speakers.
     
  17. AssassinXXVII

    AssassinXXVII Member

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    Well, I've been at IMAX Cinema and I prefer the experience at home
    Before saying that Atmos at home is garbage, it takes a lot of tweaking, experimenting, trial and error to make things work. A slight difference in the viewing distance, angle of a speaker, or a setting not suited for your room, one thing can make a huge difference. It's way above the headphone gimmick.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2024
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  18. TheDigitalJedi

    TheDigitalJedi Ancient Guru

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    I find myself utilizing DTS-X a lot more as of late. I will say that if my audio source specializes Dolby Atmos then I make the switch back to Dolby.

    If you guys really want to give your equipment a great test, try Star Wars Galaxy Of Sounds on Disney Plus. There are several episodes. Pick the test episode named excitement. This will make excellent use of your audio equipment.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2024
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  19. tunejunky

    tunejunky Ancient Guru

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    it can be
    the problem is the multiple standards (from over-eager marketing). Atmos for headphones is quite different from Atmos for soundbars - only one has the full fledged Atmos of a receiver (Nakamichi Dragon) and receivers and separates are at the top of the pile.

    even then installation needs tlc.... time, lines, and calibration plus placement
    one wrong HDMI cable can screw your pooch

    but once set you're done for the life of your receiver/ preamp
    and it's absolutely brilliant
     
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  20. pegasus1

    pegasus1 Ancient Guru

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    Depends on the source and the hardware, 4k discs and a top notch Samsung AV set up produces awesome results.
     
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