ATI Catalyst 12.11 Beta 11 Modded driver For Legacy GPU

Discussion in 'Videocards - AMD Radeon Drivers Section' started by dellon132, Dec 27, 2012.

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ATI Catalyst 12.11 B11 HotFix 11.01 Thoughts

  1. AMD HD 5000 and 6000 Users (GOOD)

    9.7%
  2. AMD Legacy GPU Users (HD 2000-4000) (GOOD)

    41.7%
  3. AMD Previous Legacy Mobility Users (Old GPU's) (GOOD)

    8.3%
  4. AMD Switchable Graphic Users (GOOD)

    6.3%
  5. AMD HD 5000-6000 Mobility Users (GOOD)

    8.3%
  6. AMD Legacy Mobility Users (HD 2000-4000) (GOOD)

    16.0%
  7. AMD HD 5000 and 6000 Users (BAD)

    0.7%
  8. AMD Legacy GPU Users (HD 2000-4000) (BAD)

    6.9%
  9. AMD Previous Legacy Mobility Users (Old GPU's) (BAD)

    4.2%
  10. AMD Switchable Graphic Users (BAD)

    6.3%
  11. AMD HD 5000-6000 Mobility Users (BAD)

    1.4%
  12. AMD Legacy Mobility Users (HD 2000-4000) (BAD)

    6.3%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. dellon132

    dellon132 Ancient Guru

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    Well, in one of my previous post I stated, OpenGL can be profiled. This way
    all the old games you are referring too should work with the profiling system
    while still being able to keep performance intact for games like rage.

    Catalyst 10.6 is actually the last driver you would want to use for 4K
    unless you have hardware acceleration disabled. It will most likely result
    in a Bsod. (Tested on Windows 8.1, I don't have Windows 7 installed on
    any of my current HDD at the moment.) Also, I think I've stated this before
    this has already been resolved within my driver. So, DXVA should work
    for most users. (I'm still wondering whether or not Green Screens during
    playback of 1080p videos and below are due to the user setup or an
    actual problem with the driver).

    Other Thoughts
    Games that have issues with one driver can be profiled. The current
    Profiling System that is being work on should do this fine. I created
    a profile for Assassin Creed 4, Asphalt 8 and Company of Heroes 2 and
    all of them worked well. Previous Optimizations did not work well with this
    game.

    Random Thought
    I think I may need to Implement multiple Profiles to make things less
    tedious to deal with but it could turn out to be useless since I don't know
    how the driver is initiated for Crossfire.

    Crossfire drivers and Single GPU drivers don't always share the same results.
    For instance, when testing assassin creed 4 using the 10.4a driver
    on Windows 8.1, the game stuttered more than it would when using
    Performance Switcher C (CAT 10.11). In other words game play was noticeably smoother. I've tested other drivers from the late CAT 9.xx Series leading up to the 10.11 sets, however, I did not have much luck with
    those drivers. I will retest them again as I've been doing to make sure
    I don't miss anything, but for now I will leave things as they are until
    I upgrade my PC. (I Need More RAM, 2GB is simply not enough and will always
    be a problem when Testing games. Currently looking into DD3 Motherboards.
    that Support Crossfire. However if I can't find any withing my price range
    I may settle for something else.)

    Hmm, well I suppose it would be better to wait until the consumer preview
    gets release, however it should be in your best interest to report these
    problems to Microsoft to ensure that the OS is in a working state on
    release. The current version of Windows 10 also contains a bug that
    causes Windows Explorer to constantly restart until it eventually freeze
    after the background changes to a black screen. (I need to retest for this
    bug I can't seem to recall the exact details).

    Other Thoughts
    I don't plan on adding Support for Windows 10 until after release since things
    that work now can easily be broken in later builds.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2014
  2. kevsamiga1974

    kevsamiga1974 Master Guru

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    The problem isn't "smoothness" post 10.6, the "problem" is later drivers crash a lot of games to desktop esp. using legacy x-fire that they didn't before, which is a worse problem. The last real driver "boost" for 4K optimisation was 10.3 anyway, everything went downhill in crossfire after that.

    I haven't been modding lately, but I have been digging very deep than before into how all this **** works.

    The newer drivers for these kinds of cards with a point of view to stability are next to useless. As for modern drivers working better for modern games, I can't even play sniper elite v2 on anything higher than 11.4 (DX10 engine game btw) without it being a stutter fest.

    As for 10.11 (being smoother) you can't even play stalker clear sky or stalker COP on 10.11 without a CTD. BFBC2 crashes on this driver in crossfire as well.

    So you either have to choose smooth, or you have to choose crashing in games. I'd rather choose the former below 10.5 and run stable where everything works. There is stuttering on every driver new or old with at least something anyway, usually fixed by killing one MVPU on the crossfire by the registry to run as a single card and isolated cases that need at least 11.7.

    9.7-10.4 are actually decent stable drivers with the exception of 9.8/HF and 9.12HF that hang IE 11 in DX10 DWM, and they will run most things out there without crashing too.

    H/w acceleration for flash isn't a problem if you are running the drivers on the OS they are intended for...even so if you already have a quad it doesn't really matter much about it.

    Hell even the default drivers that get installed by Windows 7 will run most games as is, although they are closer to 8.11 than official 8.12 as I tested win7 8.12 defaults vs Vista 8.12 and the Win7 one doesn't include the optimisations the real 8.12 has running in WDDM 1.0 mode under Windows 7.

    Some might prefer all the performance they can get. I'd rather have all the stuff working though...which it behoves me to admit that is a small miracle in itself under amd drivers.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2014
  3. dellon132

    dellon132 Ancient Guru

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    Well, I understand Crossfire has it's share of issues with Games and possibly
    Graphic application/software, but in terms of 4K Videos, I think it works
    similarly to Single GPU Users as I haven't had a Crossfire user tell me 4K
    causes their System to Bsod during playback of Flash Videos.

    When I think of Crossfire I see multiple devices capable of using multiple
    Graphic Processors to run apps that support it while still being able to
    perform well in Single GPU Operation for software that does
    not support crossfire.

    I don't prefer one over the other. I want both and that's why I'm working
    on the profiling system as it should be able to benefit the majority of legacy
    users. Keep in mind, the profile system is not restricted to any drivers I can
    profile many drivers. It's not by any means limited to doing just one thing. if
    it was I wouldn't even bother

    I would agree with you if all drivers coded for Windows 7 worked correctly
    when used in Windows 7. However, unfortunately that's not the case.
    The 4K Video Bsod actually started in Windows 7 (or was it Vista?) and
    it then eventually extended to Windows 8.1. This bug can even be spotted
    on PC's used in a business environment (keep in mind, they all use Windows 7)
    . Therefore saying drivers will work for the OS it's intended for is merely
    speculation. Everyone wants driver to be optimize for the OS it supports
    but things don't always work out that way.


    Even if you say they will run most games they still won't work with all of them
    . Then their is also the possibility that the default driver won't perform well
    at all for the games that it does work for. One other thing that doesn't work
    out well with those default driver would be the 4K Bsod bug along with the
    missing OpenGL Driver. Depends on which default driver got installed.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2014
  4. kevsamiga1974

    kevsamiga1974 Master Guru

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    Well the default driver can be reactivated with opengl support from Vista 64 (half an hours work editing). I've already done it.

    No. The default driver bsod with 4K video doesn't happen as it doesn't use h/w acceleration at all (only h/w accelerated rendering) (flash only came in 9.11).

    The problem isn't actually h/w acceleration itself, but rather it's detection whether to use it or not for videos it can't play using the GPU. Namely 4K.

    The hardware itself isn't capable of this resolution for video. So acceleration has to be off anyway, and you don't miss anything.

    On Windows XP (ati) or using Nvidia, the playback of 4K falls back to the cpu for those resolutions, and the video plays. (9.12 on xp, anything after 10.1 is just as bad as Win7)

    On Win7 standard catalyst the detection algorithm is broken, it tries to play them and well, boom.

    All I can say is, I'm still in legacy crossfire, I have lots of games installed in my test bed, and don't have a single issue that can't be worked around with older drivers.

    Any newer stuff crashes for me in various stuff. It's what I found out by trial and error, I identified that after 10.6 everything goes down the tubes for these cards stability wise, so I won't use them anymore.

    When it comes to crossfire performance, it's not as simple as changing out the atidxx (DX10) or atiumdag (DX9) dll's, no it's more "involved" than that, AMD crossfire performance is tied to the kernel components as well, as well as the video stuff tied to the kernel which is the cause for crashes in mod drivers with video, namely amdkmdap.

    This isn't just your mod or my mod, but any mod.

    Simply swapping out .dll's won't do, you have to copy the entire structure intact or things break for crossfireX.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2014

  5. dellon132

    dellon132 Ancient Guru

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    Would installing the driver on top of the stock driver then re-installing
    the stock driver allow you to enable OpenGL Support? or does the
    installer remove the OpenGL settings?


    Is the 4K Video BSOD really a result of the driver being unable to play 4K
    Videos or is it due to something else? Keep in mind, I did resolve the Bsod
    bug for 4K Video, however the Green Screen bug still exist. One other
    surprise would be the video still being hardware accelerated. Is this good
    or bad? Well, I decided to see it as good thing since users with low end
    processors will easily be able to opt out of it by changing the quality
    to 1080p or lower without having to deal with a unresponsive system
    (well at least for the ones that manage to buffer the video).

    Other thoughts
    I was referring to all windows 7 default drivers (Microsoft WDDM drivers
    supplied by Microsoft through their update system)....not the stock driver.

    Hmm, I've already prep the driver to work in most cases and I've implemented
    the Performance Switchers to test for stability issues. It should already be
    close to a year since I've been awaiting Crossfire Users input about
    their experience when using the performance switcher, but I don't remember
    anyone mentioning anything note worthy... Especially with the latest build
    that is currently up.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2014
  6. kevsamiga1974

    kevsamiga1974 Master Guru

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    The driver can't play those resolutions, full stop. And it shouldn't even try to...

    and that is where the bug lies. No error checking.

    The UVD xillion chip can't properly accelerate high density 2160P, if you think about it the thing was only designed to do dual 1080p Blu-ray streams and this is double that. Times have changed however since back then.

    That part of the GPU is only 400Mhz. The 4K cards are certainly going to struggle, since the 4xxx UVD has to disable options past 2560 x 1600 as it isn't powerful enough to do all the effects and process all those pixels at the same time etc.

    As for opengl support back in, you just edit the .inf and re-insert the relevant files from 8.12. Simple.
     
  7. dellon132

    dellon132 Ancient Guru

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    Don't misunderstand, I was implying 4K Bsods should not happen simply
    because the driver attempted to accelerate the video. Instead, it was
    probably a coding error that resulted in the Amdkmdap crashing. The GPU
    will run 4K Video....but with a Green Screen. I called it a surprise because
    I was expecting the driver to revert to 1080p within a certain time. However,
    the video never returned to 1080p or disable GPU Hardware Acceleration
    with the additional time. It played the Video continuously without any Bsods.
    So, rather than seeing it as bad I decided to think of it as good thing since
    users will still be able to easily revert 1080p after realizing 4K Videos does not
    work with their current system. Thus they will not have to deal with
    an un-responsive system due to using a low end processor or GPU that's
    simply not capable of playing 4k Videos.

    Also, the 4K BSOD bug is not just limited to 2160p, instead it also occurs
    during playback of 1440p Videos. Before Adobe decided to upgrade
    their software from the 10.3.X.X Series, 4K Videos and 1440p video would
    automatically disable GPU Hardware Acceleration, so AMD and possibly
    other companies (Nvidia) did not have to worry about whether or not
    things worked correctly.

    In regards to OpenGL I asked that question to see if their was alternative
    option to modding the inf. Well, implementation through registry may also be
    possible.... that leans more towards patching.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2014
  8. manunam

    manunam New Member

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    GPU:
    Radeon Xpress 200m
    xpress 200m driver support

    Hi, I recently revamped my laptop with Win7 32bit
    It's a HP NX6125 (Turion 2.2GHz, 2GB RAM, Radeon Xpress 200M with up to 128MB shared memory, Hardware ID PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5955&SUBSYS_308B103C&REV_00 ).
    I now have 8.561.0.0 drivers from ATI 1/12/2008, installed from Device Manager and downloaded from Windows Update Catalog website.

    I would like to test your drivers to (try to) achieve smooth playback of offline FullHD H264 videos and reduce CPU usage when videos are played from e.g. YouTube.

    I currenly have a score of 2 of Graphic Index for Aero in Win7.
    I can playback smoothly a 1920x1080p H264 video only if Aero is disabled (and DirectX video output is selected in VLC). This IMHO indicates that the culprit is the graphics card, and maybe this driver package can improve performance.

    Would you advise me to try or should I give up?
    Thank you

    I'm not going to use the laptop for playing games
     
  9. kevsamiga1974

    kevsamiga1974 Master Guru

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    GPU:
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    Another deadly serious tip for users of old AMD/ATI drivers from my research (which includes desktop as well as mobility) that have DX10 crash problems and Windows 7 I encountered recently with a 4870x2 card to my horror, is that it's imperative you un-install and hide KB2670838 (The bastardised Windows 8 direct3d features backend platform update for Windows 7). It's also installed silently as part of IE10/11 and they both will be uninstalled if you remove KB2670838 since it's a pre-requisite for IE10/11 (which are Win8 browsers btw).

    It puts Windows 8 versions of files in your System32 and SysWow64, and truth be told It's breaking games on legacy cards, and causing weird errors and CTD's with unknown origins..until you uninstall the update that is...

    Yes even a year later. I'm encountering problems with this EVIL update and AMD cards, from rendering errors to videos not playing, to games like Stalker and Fallout new vegas outright crashing sighting d3d11.dll in System32 as the error (replaced by a later version by this EVIL update).

    The hotfix issued for KB2670838 to correct it doesn't fix a thing, and it doesn't just give problems on laptops as specified in the M$ article, but desktop discrete cards as well, and ESPECIALLY legacy radeons, even 6K series too. And definately multi-gpu setups.

    M$ are lying, and 1 year on it's still happening to bug AMD cards with issues and crashes !

    The problem is quite complex but it's tied to a) the update and b) certain drivers your using. And then even if IE doesn't hang with apphangB1's on your currently used driver, your games still will. But by removing the update ALL the drivers are FINE and lose the crashing, and you don't have to worry about playing russian roulette.

    I'd been blaming flaky drivers for weeks if not months for games crashing, and it turned out THIS little Micro$Plop automatic update was to blame for an untold number of issues with directx and 2D, not the AMD drivers at all. So hats off to AMD and thumbs down to M$, Really !

    It's even the root causer for the blurry text on Firefox with 4K without having to use the Azure workaround. The update along with IE10/11 is clearly very very bad for your old cards.

    However to my amazement, removing it really does fix some DX10/10.1 games that were crashing like clockwork before, and your system is back to normal again with the files replaced in system32 by their "working" 2009/2010 versions, before this "update" quietly started causing random issues you keep blaming the AMD drivers for....

    The truth is it's not the drivers responsible for your frustration with certain DX10 games going haywire.

    I guess they screwed the pooch so subtly implementing Win8 features (there isn't really a legacy driver for) that no-one would ever notice didn't work. Well apart from me. Once this little bastard of an update was identified and removed, the lockups in DX10/11 games vanished on Windows 7, which is where you should be for your best options for legacy cards anyway.

    Well it means you can only use IE9, but there is always waterfox/firefox right...

    But at least your Win7 system will be stable again. I think part of the problem stems from the issue that old drivers were written before this update was issued, but if you google the KB patch, you'll find tons of threads with issues 1 year later, on everything from Nvidia having yellow roads in BF3 with this update, to AMD and Intel still...

    It has suprisingly crept up and astounded and bitten me, becase all my games on certain driver versions once the update was canned stopped crashing. Remove the update, and all the mysterious driver issues go away...(that are not actually an AMD driver issue!)

    *

    Since KB2670838 got passed off in February 2013 along with installing IE10 for Win7, most if not all of the HD4xxx series drivers predate the patch new or old, so you could still find yourself in a mess with gaming if you install that patch in legacy despite what driver you are running.

    Actually updating graphics drivers won't make any difference, KB2670838 is the update that brings some of the rendering APIs (D2D, Directwrite, D3D, WARP, and so on) necessary for IE10's enhancements to function. I'd wager the bug is in the way the rendering APIs handle the configuration rather than in the display drivers.

    So my advice if you have a legacy card and you value driver stability/sanity, do not EVER install KB2670838, and use Firefox/Waterfox as your main browser or something else instead, since you will be stuck on IE9 which is unsupported come 2016, but at least you can game and work safely.

    Because if you have an old card and/or old drivers (no choice) or whether your running multigpu. This platform update that uses Windows 8 components just so you can have IE10/11 will brick your Win7 system, like it hosed mine.

    Win8 systems using legacy are affected straight off the bat with no option to remove anything since the stuff is standard, and shouldn't be used for gaming in DX10 as it will be unstable and bugged.

    A deeply rooted problem, but now I know what causes it. I'm sharing it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2014
  10. liquidfox12

    liquidfox12 Member

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    GPU:
    ati x1400
    Hello dellon i wanted to ask something about my card

    you see when i bought it dell advertised it as ati x1400 mobility 256mb hypermemory . the ati catalyst from dell would show it has 256mb as well but when i switched over to the non dell drivers the catalyst started showing that i have 745mb memory for the card . Recently i put in another another gb of ram taking the total 3gb ddr 2 .

    now the catalyst says i have says memory size : 1407mb
    memory type: hypermemory

    The real issue is none of the games detect i have this much memory they only show that i have 128mb .

    Any idea whats going on and any way to force the games to see 1407mb ?
     

  11. kevsamiga1974

    kevsamiga1974 Master Guru

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    GPU:
    EVGA GTX 580 SC
    It's a case of horses for courses. Coming from a legacy crossfire perspective you would certainly notice the difference with this range compared to others. FarCry 2 peaked with Catalyst 9.8/9.9 and performance was fine and sustained on through the early 10.x 's.

    Something happened however because by the time they broke crossfire after 10.5 and we are at 10.12 all the performance in crossfire fell away again and went backwards. Similar with other games.

    So it's clear to me that the best performance lies in the 9.8-10.4 range for legacy crossfire, and I see no valid reason to move off of that range.

    10.4 was infact the last real driver. And it's always happened that when a new series gets released, the previous ones performance in the drivers go to crap and get forgotten.

    After this point all we have is profiling and developing hot air. And more "bugs" for crossfireX.

    But some people need to run "modern" because L5.1 support and such things are important to them. And not always possible to tape newer components to old without issues since the video components are tied to the kernal components you must move both.

    ...and there are plenty of "tricks" to get modern games to run correctly if you go as deep as to mess around with MVPU modes.

    Un-metered AFR is vastly worse than supertiling. The former gives you wildly erratic frametimes, the later just gives poor scaling, which is a far lesser problem.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2014
  12. Starlight112

    Starlight112 New Member

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    GPU:
    ATI Radion HD 4870x2
    Can't get CCC.

    I don't know where to start the Catalyst Control Center install.

    Could somebody help me?

    Thanks.
     
  13. trocio2

    trocio2 Master Guru

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    GPU:
    GT 630 1GB DDR3 GK208 Kep
    Hey Kev! The horrible dx10 performance with the 4670 was caused by a m$ update or by newer AMD drivers? I remember swapping dlls was somewhat helpful but I didn't have crashes :D My radeon is dead but i'm glad to see AMD is caring a lot about their new catalyst releases. Legacy crossfire is really a hell lol
     
  14. yrichard

    yrichard Member

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    GPU:
    ati radeon x600
    hi Dellon 132
    Do you think this can help for my very old radeon x600 pro?
    I can't find it listed in inf file
    Thank you
     
  15. Menpower

    Menpower Active Member

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    GPU:
    Sapphire R9 290 TRI-X OC
    Hello Dellon,

    Can you make Dragon Age Inquisition custom crossfire profile (cap) for radeon hd4870x2, when I create a custom crossfire profile from catalyst, game making hiccups, stutters and loading very slowly. Do you have any idea to work inquisition with crossfire hd4870x2?
     

  16. dejan_ibanez

    dejan_ibanez Active Member

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    GPU:
    XFX 290X
    One big question. is it possible to make a modded 14.12 driver that will support VSR on all cards?
     
  17. kevsamiga1974

    kevsamiga1974 Master Guru

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    GPU:
    EVGA GTX 580 SC
    My "Radeon" 4870x2 was dead a few weeks ago, but I raised it from the dead with some tinfoil and a 550c heatgun on the BGA gpu's and memory to reflow the solder.

    It's now alive again and holding up well enough to type this without error, before was just a black screen, couldn't even get into BIOS.

    Well at least some DX10 stuttering was "introduced" since 11.5... ! I have a test case here where I can reproduce it in every driver from here in DX10, but not before it.

    It's not really hell if your on something like 9.8HF (minus) KB2670838 update.

    Infact you don't need to worry about any profile nonsense just install and play.

    Smooth as butter here. I think the 4K series peaked around 9.8 and there's no reason you can't run games like SKYRIM from 2011 from 9.6 onwards. (anything below 9.6 and the screen will go blank when you jump into the water).

    And that's without face flashing/crashing or bugs from the 11.x series. Try it and be surprised...

    Some people say 9.11 is better for 4870x2, but borderlands has missing textures, farcry 1 stutters like hell, and others I forgot like dirt and opengl games are busted with this driver.

    And 9.12 run like a dog on 4870x2 = start of 5K series optimising. Figures because every time a new series is released, at that point drivers for the previous series go to crap.

    The only problem with 9.8 (which runs dirt 2 ok as opposed to 9.9-9.11) is anno1404 black textures (but that was fixed with a game patch anyhoo).

    But if you need to play BFBC2 you'll need 9.12+ as anything else crashes on level loading.

    9.7-10.4 are way more stable and compatible than anything the 11 or 12.x series can offer you for 4K series, crossfired or not.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2014
  18. xata9000

    xata9000 New Member

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    GPU:
    AMD mobility HD 5145
    Hello all.
    I have ATI mobility Radeon HD 5145 and windows 8.1 x64

    I download and instal "ATI Catalyst 12.11 B11 HotFix 10 P6 V10.2 Legacy Driver x64Bit"
    Driver and work fine ( i check few games) but Catalist Controll Center or AMD Vision Controll Center dont see this driver. So i cant change options (AA, Catalist AI and other), tray icon "AMD Vision / CCC" sameno options if right clic.
    Its intended?

    Or advise me the appropriate driver for ATI mobility radeon HD 5145, because this GPU total **** and im tired and cant find drivers even for win7. Only 4500/5100 series from legacy official AMD 2012 year old.

    Sry for my english
     
  19. IFPMaximus34

    IFPMaximus34 Member

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    GPU:
    Ati mobility radeom 4300
    hi dellon wanted to ask how did you fix bsod on company of heroes 2?
    Did you change the atikmdag.sys cause when bsod it says error on atikmdag.sys or anyother way you fixed it.Can you tell me how cause i wanna keep 10.4 mobility drivers they are best for me in win8.1.
     
  20. seeker010

    seeker010 Member

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    interesting problem. 3870x2 using the latest beta, when it turns screen off, after I restore screen I get a 0x3b bugcheck against Symantec AV service. switched to Eset, seems ok for now

    3dmark vantage bug seems to be back. horrible corruption.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2014

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