ATi Catalyst 10.9a Hotfix Download & Discussion

Discussion in 'Videocards - AMD Radeon Drivers Section' started by asder00, Sep 15, 2010.

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  1. markv

    markv Member

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    From a work site perspective you ONLY upgrade to newer drivers and/or hot fixes when they have been vetted accordingly and it needs to be a roll out that goes out company wide for all for just such a reason you posted about finding a bug that was found because of a graphics driver. Your issue with finding this bug (from the story you relayed) is from people using drivers different than the other ones. Basically you're upgrading for two reasons - bug fix or new features.

    This philosophy applies to home use as well for the two reasons to upgrade, bug fixes or new features. There is zero reason to upgrade otherwise if the games you're playing currently gain zero benefit from the new drivers what is your reason to upgrade to it? None. You are simply opening yourself up for chance to have a new set of bugs introduced in to your setup and there's no reason for it. Yes you can factor performance increases and image quality fixes for a game as a bug fix, because that's what it is.

    New features is why I'm wanting to push past 10.5a. GPU accelerated VLC, Flash, OpenCL and other features that have been added as of late are why I'm wanting the newer drivers and I'm sure others as well would like to see the benefit of that. Especially with the release of the new browser betas.

    The latest drivers comment that comes from video game companies are there in general statements in the hopes that the fixes that the person may be having are actually addressed without them having to update their information on their website and other sources routinely. Calling or emailing for support often tends to garner different information if it's a known bug with a certain driver set of which the developer will inform the end user to roll back to XX or YY set.

    The driver releases will say "You will get xx% increase in yy" or "aa has been fixed for bb" which tells you if that's an upgrade cycle that you need or want to worry about.

    The slogan of 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' is a very valid slogan, but it also has to be taken in context to what the problem is. The only 'stupid' thing about that slogan is people who disregard the context for it and try to apply it to every scenario without taking in to consideration the scenario itself. Obviously a fresh install of something can yield different results and installing the latest drivers on a clean OS install is never a bad idea unless the reports are already out in regards to problems with that set of drivers that will directly impact what you will be using them for, in which case you install the last known version that worked 100% for what your needs are.

    TLDR; If it fixes bugs specific to you, great! If it offers a new feature set, great! If it gives you the performance / image quality boost you were looking to have fixed, great! Otherwise what's the point? The upgrade offers no tangible benefit for the potential of headaches it can incur. Also, calling a tried and true slogan 'stupid' because you choose to not read in to the real meaning of it is 'stupid'.
     
  2. DarthElvis

    DarthElvis Master Guru

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    Looks like ATI/AMD should start thinking about separate driver sets for Xfire and single card solutions. Most of the recent driver sets appear to work okay with single GPU setups, but the Multi GPU setups seem to experience nothing but issues (for the most part).

    Luckily I'm on a single card setup, so I escape MOST of the issues here and the 10.9a set runs great for me. I feel for the guys with $600-$1000 multi GPU setups. I'd be pissed too if my $1000+ dual 5970 setup ran like ass.

    It would probably be better if there were Xfire optimized drivers separate from the regular Cat releases, since more time could be spent concentrating on Xfire specific issues. If they did this, I would actually consider an Xfire setup. As it stands now, I wouldn't touch Xfire with a 10 ft. pole.
     
  3. Sever

    Sever Ancient Guru

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    random question, anyone notice their mouse glitching up when alt tabbing out of sc2 with these?
     
  4. Eoma

    Eoma Member

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    ^ nope, works fine here.
    My SC2 performance issue mentioned earlier was due to AA 4x settings being left on the CCC. Changing the global settings and it's all good again (though maybe not 60fps constant, but no jerkiness or slowdowns).
    This driver is so far so good, but the problem of 3d clocks not resetting to 2d clocks for the 2nd GPU is still there.
     

  5. markv

    markv Member

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    It would be awesome if they could and would do that, but it's doubtful they will from a business model. I'm going to guess that the # of people that use xfire is extremely low, say 1-2% of overall sales. I really couldn't see it being much higher than that, and to devote that kind of resources to it specifically doesn't make sense to them from a financial point, however from an R&D perspective it makes a lot of sense. Being able to tweak a multi-gpu setup and having a team working on it full time would push them ahead of nVIDIA and other competition when multi-gpu becomes viable for the masses and not just the enthusiasts.

    I wouldn't be using a 4870x2 if I didn't get it for free from my friend because he upgraded to gtx 480 SLI. I like the card, I think some of the headaches suck though. But either way it was an improvement over my GTX 260 ;)
     
  6. qstoffe

    qstoffe Active Member

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    How do you know if an update offers new features or bug fixes you are interested in? All changes are NOT listed in the realease notes!!! Also how do you know if everything is currently working for you? You might be running a game with lesser shadows due to bugs without even knowing it. It might be running at half the FPS it could be etc. The slogan, I think, is only valid in scenarios when everything is working acceptable and a new fault/bug might have catastrophic consequences for you. In these scenarios even a single bugfix is potentially dangerous as some programs may rely on that bug to be like that. Hence not worth the risk of changing anything.

    To be honest this is all bull****. I only got angry because I hate when people use this slogan to imply that it's your own fault when you are upgrading to a new driver and complain. What do you think of Windows way to recommend/auto updates -> new drivers? Maybe they should use this slogan too huh?

    The 10.9a drivers have been good for me in both SC2 and Mafia2. Before this driver a had alot of flickering in these games. Performance is still pretty bad in SC2 but that may or may not be the drivers fault.
     
  7. Darren Hodgson

    Darren Hodgson Ancient Guru

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    Nope, works 100% fine here as I tried it twice. The game uses its own custom mouse pointer but they correctly switch between it and the standard Windows as expected with no visual glitches.
     
  8. Darren Hodgson

    Darren Hodgson Ancient Guru

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    Is it normal for GPU2 to switch to 400/1200 MHz when running Internet Explorer 9 Beta? If I quit the browser then PowerPlay kicks in and disables it after 30 seconds (as it does when I exit games).

    I've just noticed it (monitored with the awesome GPU Monitor sidebar gadget) but thought it was strange that GPU1 never changes from running at 157/300 MHz. I know IE9 uses 2D acceleration but shouldn't it be using GPU1 not GPU2?
     
  9. Sprecker

    Sprecker Ancient Guru

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    My mouse did it the first time yesturday. Don't know when it started but I noticed it after about an hour of gaming. Exiting the game didn't fix it either. Restart did. Didn't happen again though.
     
  10. markv

    markv Member

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    The slogan is used in many facets of life and is adapted by the people to be used in that. It's a phrase which encompasses different meanings for different scenarios, but at no time is it a saying that is vitriolic or hateful which is what you're making it out to be.

    Your comparison of Windows Update and the release cycle / testing done by Microsoft vs the AMD Catalyst updates cycle and testing is laughable. You realize that the testing resources for MS easily dwarf what AMD has available and their patches reflect that. Most patches are bug / security related and most performance related patches are held off for service packs which have a rigorous testing cycle and open beta with a lot of feedback. They have a far different testing schedule and, to be honest, rolling back a patch from Windows Update is extremely painless (compared to rolling back your video drivers) if you end up finding out it has a negative impact on an application you run regularly. From a work perspective you don't see offices with an IT setup that allows Windows updates to just happen without proper vetting by their IT staff to ensure it fixes the problems they want without introducing new ones.

    I, in no way, say people don't have a right to complain about the driver state, and people have a valid reason to be upset with AMD right now about their current testing and release policy and AMD needs to step back and re-evaluate what they are doing for a release cycle and adjust it accordingly to stop the current breakdown. I am simply pointing out the reason people upgrade should be forefront to them and they should understand why they are doing the upgrade before launching in to it. I am not saying they shouldn't complain about issues that still have not been fixed or point out new issues that arise (their input is needed because I'd never expect companies to catch everything with the amount of different system setups out there), but that some of the raging hate people spew out in the way they present it should be toned down because it's not even remotely constructive or helpful.

    I think the current quality of drivers has been atrocious and they need to tone back on the release time from a monthly schedule to a quarterly schedule to allow them a chance to properly test and address bugs. Adding to that the option for enthusiasts to participate by trying out beta/preview versions of the next upcoming release to help increase their testing bed would, overall, yield a far better quality of drivers being released in my opinion. Also they need to look at actually creating a proper install / uninstall routine so people aren't relegated to booting in to Safe Mode and using things like CCleaner and DriverSweeper to ensure a clean uninstall so the older drivers have zero impact on the new ones, but that's been a long standing problem with not only AMD but also nVIDIA, Creative etc. and is a whole other topic of conversation.
     

  11. Psychlone

    Psychlone Ancient Guru

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    Well, you get my point partially.

    User error is a huge percentage of the problems that people are facing - most of which result from people jumping from the green side and being used to the way nVidia drivers are installed and work.

    That's not to say that there aren't problems with drivers though...I was simply stating that the rigs themselves can't be the only determining factor because we all have different rigs and only some of us have had problems.

    I certainly wouldn't chalk it all up to user error though... I'm sure that some of the problems that people are experiencing are truly driver-dependent...but I will say that I am one of the lucky ones that hasn't experienced any issues for many, many years - and for no apparent explanation other than I've not had an nVidia card for over 15 years, so no switching drivers, etc.

    ATI has been very good to me so far...no issues, no problems, I can play all my games at the resolution and framerates that I like, and just generally enjoy my ATI experience.


    Psychlone
     
  12. qstoffe

    qstoffe Active Member

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    Exactly! And in the same way the AMD Catalyst team should dwarf the testing of a single user.

    But otherwise I agree with what you are saying.
     
  13. Dreamskiller

    Dreamskiller Member

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    I never had any problems with the cursor under SC2, but on maps with water my FPS (which are normally around 120 in the beginning of a game) are around 45 in the beginning. Normally, the game should be fluent, but it isnt (you can feel it). And there are several graphical problems, for example with the jetpack of the reapers (there is a flame on the top, which shouldnt be there)
     
  14. IM0001

    IM0001 Master Guru

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    Anyone here able to help me figure out how to get these on a mobility 5870? I can get the .inf to begin the install (manually installing drivers through device manager) but no matter what, it always comes back saying its for the wrong version of windows (Which can't be true since I am editing the 64bit win7 driver .inf...

    I haven't edited my own .inf before so maybe I am missing something.


    BTW I had a Fresh Win7 Install on my desktop with my X2 and the drivers are working perfectly. Full 3D Clock speeds proven through Vantage scores (P19800) and the clocks do both reset to 2D when finished. I did get a black screen installing them but a soft reboot seams to have allowed them to continue to work as normal.
     
  15. Eoma

    Eoma Member

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    The 3d clock bug only happens on fullscreen DX9 apps. It doesn't happen on DX10 (i.e. Vantage) and DX11 apps.
     

  16. Plug2k

    Plug2k Ancient Guru

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    Seems we have a 3d bug though where by on 5970s the 2nd GPU will not go into a low power state compaired to 1st gpu.
    sometimes it will correct its self most of the time it wont when exiting games or watching BDV movies

    now the 1st gpu will go into low power state all the time but thats if your not overclocking with MSI afterburner

    if you use that the 1st gpu will stay at 400mhz core and what ever you set your memory to when overclocked.

    10.5 fixed this issue with 5970s but the rest are completly FOOOKED.

    ati just cant get anything right with drivers lately there just as bad as nivida probably worse now lol
     
  17. Shataan

    Shataan Maha Guru

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    "5970 never had problems, both gpu's always worked. GPU clock problems are related to 4870X2 cards. "

    Well, when I installed the 10.8s, gpu z said disabled, and when I went back to 10.4s, it said enabled again.
     
  18. markv

    markv Member

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    Has anyone run in to issues with 10.9a and windows 7 sidebar gadgets? most noticeably is the gadget Sidebar 7 which mimics the original vista sidebar in windows 7 but purely based as a windows 7 gadget. It was working in earlier releases but it seems with 10.9a it's giving me grief.

    Anyone else use that gadget at all and noticed any issues?
     
  19. Sever

    Sever Ancient Guru

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    last time i checked, gpu2 = your top graphics card. it is in my case, as my gpu 2's temp is higher than gpu 1, which only makes sense as my choked card should be the card running at the highest temp.

    ie9 is supposed to provide full hardware gpu acceleration for everything, so yeah, it steps up your clocks. it still doesnt run as smooth as it could (the amd fusion demo vid looks smoother than ie9 on my computer which is quite depressing).

    yeah, theres one map with shiny crystals and its a bit misty and it has a stupid amount of lag.

    yeah, im having this issue now. its annoying the hell outta me because the mouse pointer corrupts both ingame and in windows.
     
  20. mitzi76

    mitzi76 Ancient Guru

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    well personally you were coming across as saying user error was more at fault and I can quite safely say past 10.5 some games in xfire are fecked for me.

    Unless of course its user error on my part or something to do with my current setup? (bios/vista64/asus xonar/:3eyes:)

    i'll eat my shorts if am wrong but i think ati need to sort their **** out in regards current drivers.

    however i am happy atm with my setup but would be pissed off if i got starcraft 2 and then found it lost perf with 10.5 so I would then need to install 10.9 for example which would then screw up napoleon and wow..

    if you catch my drift. :)
     

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