Ashes of the Singularity v2.4 update brings Vulkan Support

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Aug 17, 2017.

  1. Hilbert Hagedoorn

    Hilbert Hagedoorn Don Vito Corleone Staff Member

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  2. Arbie

    Arbie Member

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    Why would anyone "hate" this game? It's a beautifully crafted, modern RTS that attempts to bring all the best from earlier productions and run it on today's multi-core hardware. The attention to detail is remarkable, the graphics are stunning, and the gameplay is fluid and continually refined.

    Find something else to hate, such as the endless stream of melee-bound "first person shooters".
     
  3. kastriot

    kastriot Master Guru

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    It's a very good benchmark tool, now with Vulkan API officially at 24 august you can test your system with DX12 and Vulkan especially Win 7 users.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2017
  4. Prince Valiant

    Prince Valiant Master Guru

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    RTS are cool to hate, it's been that way for a while.

    Neat to see another game supporting Vulkan; I wish more would.
     

  5. Yxskaft

    Yxskaft Maha Guru

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    I'm curious if Vulkan performs any worse on Windows 7 than on Windows 10.

    Hopefully Vulkan will catch up to the DX12 performance. I assume high DX12 performance in this game has been important for both AMD and Nvidia.
     
  6. cpy2

    cpy2 Member

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    This is a game? I always thought that this is just some sort of benchmark demo or something.
     
  7. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    For the first Vulkan release, I'd say the performance is pretty good. I'm sure they'll add patches to further refine performance.

    You kind of answered your own question - the people who hate on this game are the type of people who only play FPSs and adventure games (not RPGs - too complex for them). RTSs are a very adult genre since they require critical thinking and patience. RTSs punish you pretty hard for failure, and a lot of kids can't handle that - why do you think so many schools hand out awards for things like coming in 6th place, "great enthusiasm", or "being a team player"?

    That being said, I noticed most people who hate on RTSs are also the type of people who don't like playing shooters like UT where you have to actually have skill to win. I never liked games where you die in just a couple hits, because it really comes down to "whoever sees you first wins". I want to be able to put up a fight, and I want who I'm facing to prove themselves. I'll pretty much never play a game like CS:GO or Battlefield for this reason. </rant>
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2017
  8. xIcarus

    xIcarus Master Guru

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    I don't think anyone hates the game per se; Oxide however have stained their reputation with this title through misinformation.

    In case you missed the ordeal, at some point they were shouting how asynchronous compute was the second coming of Jesus Christ and they were implying how Nvidia is anti-consumer for not supporting it.
    The decreased complexity from having an emulated async solution allows for less heat and higher clocks. And it turned out that Nvidia didn't really need it either. AMD has far more holes in their pipeline, holes that can be filled with compute tasks. Nvidia's uarch simply doesn't have nearly as many holes.
    So it's practically a design trade-off, a very common thing in hardware architecture.

    Sh1t got confusing when Hitman came along and showed asynchronous compute giving an average FPS increase of what, 5% on AMD hardware? It looked like asynchronous compute was more specific than Oxide had said.
    Like, combined with the fact that Oxide had been with AMD since the beginning this whole thing started smelling weird. Not only did Oxide assume too much, they 'incidentally' assumed heavily in AMD's favor. AMD also released some near-cringe statements that certainly didn't help their case in the long run.

    And ironically, Nvidia was accused of not supporting DX12 because they weren't doing async the way AMD was - even though they were supporting more features from the DX12 spec sheet. They still are. And even more ironically, Intel's iGPUs support more than both.

    TL;DR asynchronous compute is the most useless overhyped tech from the past years, even though Oxide and AMD swore by it at the expense of their reputation.

    Maybe this is what Hilbert meant in regards to why some people might hate this game. People tend to look at the developer too. Most people for example are accustomed to taking anything from EA or Ubisoft with caution.
    I for one won't believe anything Oxide says from now on without confirmation from a third party.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2017
  9. wavetrex

    wavetrex Member Guru

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    Yes, it looks great, but the gameplay itself is complete cr*p.
    I am a primary RTS users since the very early days, starting with things like Dune 2, Warcraft 1, Command & Conquer and the amazing Total Annihilation... and even today trying/playing almost any RTS that appears.

    Ashes kept me about 20 minutes in front of it, never to be started again. Total disappointment, I want my money back.

    In contrast, I still play Supreme Commander (which has this concept of large-scale battles with thousands of units) every day 10 years after it's launch...
    Very sad that it's simulation is single threaded, otherwise it would be the best RTS ever. Even so, it probably is.
     
  10. TimmyP

    TimmyP Master Guru

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    I hate this game because we have to hear about it so much.

    Yeah we get it, an average-to-bad game ran better on AMD for awhile.
     

  11. Stormyandcold

    Stormyandcold Ancient Guru

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    Well, this is obviously good news.

    However, I'm reading early reports of Nvidia users having a much wider gap between DX12 and Vulkan, than AMD users.
     
  12. sverek

    sverek Ancient Guru

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    My thoughts exactly. I never seen anybody talking about gameplay or anything gaming related, only benchmarking.
     
  13. Venix

    Venix Master Guru

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    Ashes of the Benchularity might be a more fitting tittle ! although to their honor they support so many technologies on their Game mutli-gpu 3 api's optimisations you name it .... whats next support for 3dfx glide ? :banana:

    schim do you spy on me ? I LOVED ADORED WORSHIPED Unreal tournament and 2003 and 2004 every C&C till 3 Civilizations and rpgs my all time favorites are Never Winternternights 2 Gothic 1/2 and the old baldur's gates well a lot more but those are my favorites of all time the first and the last cod i played was the first one Call of duty 1 after that i just had no interest for em !
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2017
  14. Ryu5uzaku

    Ryu5uzaku Ancient Guru

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    Considering how well they support the game and have been patching it. It's a pretty good game actually.
     
  15. Aura89

    Aura89 Ancient Guru

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    troll much?
     

  16. sunnyp_343

    sunnyp_343 Master Guru

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    ****tiest game ever made. "Asses of the Singulerity
     
  17. Arbie

    Arbie Member

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    Well, I have several hundred hours into Ashes and have enjoyed every minute - locked to the screen. But then I feel the same way about the Crysis games, which have also been roundly hated.

    I might think that I'm too easily pleased, except that practically every other game in these genres seems like crap relative to these. I appreciate the smoothness and intelligence of their gameplay, the focus on what's important, the refinement of the engines, and especially the huge variety and... replayability!
     
  18. goat1

    goat1 Ancient Guru

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    I agree with this 100%.. It looks cool, but the gameplay is terrible. I got a refund. We need another C&C or Supreme Commander game.. sigh :(
     
  19. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Let's Fix It.

    1st Oxide got flame from nV's fans as game was AMD "sponsored" and being "benchmark". Then it got flame from AMD's fans as it was actually running better on usually equal nV's cards over AMD's.

    Then they kind of uncovered that nV used dummy Async "implementation" in driver. And refused to do nV specific stuff as it was alteration of standard DX implementation which would negatively affect AMD's performance. Or nV specific code path would have to be made, but that would make difference in IQ between manufacturers and game could no longer serve as "benchmark".

    That brings it to love/hate. Many people who bought it use it only as benchmark. And Oxide does not really want to kill this feature as it brings additional money.

    And while some, like xIcarus may not like it, there have been tests of ASync done when Pascal came and repeated again later.
    At that time GTX 980 Ti (Maxwell) Lost few % of FPS with ASync ON, but GTX 1080 (Pascal) Gained few % of FPS.
    No, that's not because Pascal introduced holes in processing. That's because Maxwell was simply missing HW capability to plug very same holes Pascal has.
    Enabling ASync has certain software overhead (read CPU cycles due to game+driver processing), if that goes to null HW, then there is proportional loss in performance unless this software part runs outside of main thread.
    But idea is that this mentioned overhead causes smaller loss than HW gains. That's why Pascal gains from ASync.

    This has been confirmed by all ASync capable software solutions known. Including Time Spy bench:
    [​IMG]
    And then there is another reason why Oxide is being hated by some. It is nasty set of words: "Asynchronous Shaders".

    And when one looks at ASync on AMD vs. nV...
    3 queues capable to actually execute certain tasks in overlapping way vs. 2 queues which really are just about plugging "holes".

    Can't wait people turning coats and loving ASync if gaming Volta gains full support and gains similar to AMD chips...
     
  20. angelgraves13

    angelgraves13 Master Guru

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    Async Compute and Vega were super hyped. In reality, there's nothing there game changing...

    The $100 price increase on Vega was also pretty shady of AMD.

    Nvidia is the better...
     

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