[Application] Color Sustainer - ICC Profile Enforcer

Discussion in 'Computer Monitor Forum' started by yasamoka, Feb 3, 2014.

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Do you use Color Sustainer in Global mode or in Mode-specific mode (v1.03.1+) ?

  1. Global mode

    27 vote(s)
    61.4%
  2. Mode-specific mode

    9 vote(s)
    20.5%
  3. A mix of the two

    8 vote(s)
    18.2%
  1. yasamoka

    yasamoka Ancient Guru

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    Unfortunately :( project deadlines and midterms these upcoming two weeks. Maybe I should looking into open-sourcing the project.

    Developers here, reading this, would you be interested in working with Color Sustainer's code?
     
  2. Vercinaigh

    Vercinaigh Member

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    Hope someone got in touch with you, there really isn't another option within reason for people other than this.
     
  3. Vercinaigh

    Vercinaigh Member

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    Any word here? Hate to be somewhat of a pest but like I said there is no better alternative for this sort of thing, surprised this doesn't get more notice.
     
  4. yasamoka

    yasamoka Ancient Guru

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    Update here, tomorrow I'm knocking out a big post concerning the current situation, and hopefully you'll be very pleased to know that (almost certainly) you'll have your color profiles working across all your games.
     

  5. Vercinaigh

    Vercinaigh Member

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    Thank christ man I am very glad to hear that and thank you for the hard work and sorry to be the pest!
     
  6. Vercinaigh

    Vercinaigh Member

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    Please tell me you forgot and things didn't fall through, this is maddening of a problem I am starting to play even more games with this issue x.x
     
  7. niciuffo

    niciuffo New Member

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    Hello, just wanted to say that I'm also having the problem Vercinaigh is describing:
    • Some games work really well: they don't change the color profile in any way (not very many).
    • Other games, retain the color profile the first time they launch. If I ALT+TAB, the profile resets (on the desktop AND on the game). I usually Stop and Start the "service" again (File -> stop and File -> Start). One of these games is Assetto Corsa, can't remember other ones.
    • Lastly, some games outright don't work at all with custom profiles. With these, I am usually happy to just mess with the gamma slider in-game (I don't think there's anything that can be done in these cases).
    I am also having a weird mouse stutter when Color Sustainer is open. Every second (I'm guessing the polling time for the auto-profile thing), a micro stutter occurs. I am not sure if it's just the mouse, but it seems like also videos stutter a bit.

    I read the last posts and see that you are very busy at the moment. I'm just letting you know of the issues, when you'll find the time I hope you'll be able to fix these. :)

    P.S.: I don't have much experience with DirectX and such, but I am currently studying CS in high school and have some C#/C++/Java skills. If you could post the source code on GitHub, or just share it privately if you prefer, I'd be happy to mess around with it (just don't expect me to fix the issues, but I'd love to give an hand).
    Especially since this seems to be the only tool that works under Windows (it honestly should be built-in in either the OS or the driver), I realize that more and more people will start utilizing it and finding new bugs.
     
  8. alanm

    alanm Ancient Guru

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    This is why I will not buy another monitor without OSD color adjustments. Some games ignore all attempts to abide by color profiles. With a good monitor with OSD adjustable colors, there is no need for profiles.

    Still very much appreciative of Yasas CS. It does come in handy in the games where it works.
     
  9. Vercinaigh

    Vercinaigh Member

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    Unfortunately in many cases this is simply not a option. I will not but a non 120+hz monitor and AFAIK none have such a feature yet though why it isn't standard I'll never know.
     
  10. yasamoka

    yasamoka Ancient Guru

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    Finally, I have time to sit down and write this much-needed post to update you guys.

    No problem at all. Thanks for the encouragement and sorry for all the wait!

    Thanks for describing the bug. Believe it or not, I haven't even found time to properly document what happens with the bug for the last month or so. Your description seems accurate enough so I will test some games on my side for that.

    For mouse stutter, you might want to raise the polling period to something like 10000 (ms). It should help remove that stutter. Please tell me how it goes.

    There is no code in the application related to DirectX, so you might realize that you're more than able to understand and work with the code if you desire such. I will be hosting the code after I'm done with some very intensive refactoring and reorganization I started a few months back and left, after which I would very much appreciate any contribution or reporting of issues concerning the code. Thank you in advance.

    As for such functionality being part of Windows, I wouldn't be surprised at the misunderstanding and stubbornness shown from game developers concerning the topic of accurate color reproduction on the consumer / gamer side. Seriously, it's as simple as two things: do not reset the system color profile (avoid using SetGammaRamp() and do color adjustments IN the game engine) and do not ignore the system color profile (avoid using IDXDGI::SetGammaControl() and, again, do color adjustments IN the game engine). For the most part, all those developers do is reset the system color profile and do not load any other profile in place, meaning all they have done is simply wipe away the grayscale calibration. This is the part Color Sustainer takes care of. However, simply choosing to ignore the system profile is something I can't fathom. Stupid.

    I wouldn't merely blame Microsoft for providing those functions. I would blame the developers for misusing them and misunderstanding what they do when most of what they care about is pushing shinier, prettier graphics that fail to look color-accurate because of careless programming practices. Alas, that's what leaving too much control in third-party software can do.

    There is still a need for profiles since no manual controls can get you to the point where the entire grayscale response is neutral over all shades of grey, unless the monitor is accurate enough to give a flat response. Little to no consumer monitors do that in my experience, and only on higher-end IPS monitors you will see a display ship with a proper gamma of 2.2, flat RGB levels from 0 to 100 IRE, etc... However, having manual controls greatly reduces the urgency for a profile as long as gamma is in check. Most gamma controls on monitors do little to straighten out the gamma curve or have it average a proper value of 2.2, 2.4, etc...

    Even after all that, errors in the gamut: oversaturated / undersaturated primaries, misaligned secondaries, and all-around inaccurate color tone reproduction are all not accounted for properly with manual RGB controls and grayscale software calibration. Granted, a good grayscale calibration aligns the saturation sweeps for the primaries and secondaries since it adjusts the whitepoint to its proper value, but it does little to fix a misaligned magenta saturation sweep, or a tendency for yellows to have a bit too much green. I will show sample data to explain my point a bit (although I suspect you in particular already know what I'm talking about).

    Thanks for the encouragement and glad you like the application.

    You see, the problem with most gaming monitors up until recently with the release of the Acer XB270HU, 120Hz+ monitors were all TN with little to no regard to accurate color reproduction, at least as far as a TN panel can do. Some TN panels are actually very accurate out-of-the-box, such as a famous 27" 1080p Samsung glossy TN monitor. However, with all the gaming ballyhoo and marketing, with color accuracy a subject so rarely discussed and known for gamers, display manufacturers can get away with pretty much anything: using the cheaper TN panels, excessive blue levels, very low / high gamma, shrunken gamut smaller than sRGB, etc... it's been a staple in the gaming scene that only TN panels can do higher than 60Hz which has been shown to be untrue with the release of the overclockable Korean monitors that often reached up to 120Hz with competitive response times for being IPS monitors. TN panels were still faster, but it wasn't the case that IPS monitors couldn't be shipped running above 75Hz, or even 100Hz, without serious pixel response issues. Loads of people enjoyed and still enjoy gaming on their Korean monitors, even though they're slower than the latest 144Hz IPS G-Sync / FreeSync monitors such as the Acer XB271HU or the Asus PG279Q.

    For around 2 years, the only option for high refresh rate, 1440p, IPS panels were the Korean monitors. Those have no OSD at all, since their bypass boards allow negligible (~2-3ms) input latency and overclockability way beyond 60Hz. So you can imagine that the dream gaming monitors for 2 whole years had to have their colors adjusted via software, particularly the Qnix variant which has been known (measured) to show gamma shift the further it was overclocked. I'm running a Qnix and a main part of Color Sustainer, per refresh-rate color profiles, was to solve the conundrum of having to load and unload the proper color profile as the monitor was switched from 60Hz to 90Hz - 120Hz.

    I will be posting a small guide to setting up the perfect environment for color-accurate gaming across most / all games and some topics for discussion below. Just want to keep the posts separate to make it easier for others to read.
     

  11. Vercinaigh

    Vercinaigh Member

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    Yeah I know about the color accuracy issues and the IPS panels coming out but IPS has it's own artifacting issues as well. At the end of the day smoothness is what matters to my gaming but at the same time, no point not calibrating a display to get the most of what it has!
     
  12. Element

    Element New Member

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    Hi,

    I have a notebook Fujitsu A530 and monitor Dell 2209WA.
    Dell is connected with DVI-HDMI cable. In windows profile manager Dell is visible.
    The problem is that Color Sustainer don't detect Dell.
    Laptop display is detected correctly and I can assign color profile with no problem.

    Is there any solution for this problem?

    Rgds,
    Michal
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2015
  13. Vercinaigh

    Vercinaigh Member

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    Still no update from you AFAIK bro. This thing is becoming progressively more useless for me as more and more games simply break it's functionality every time they are in focus as I had described from before. Makes games look utterly awful but at this point I am about to simply give up on it and half ass it manually on the monitor instead of this program as it now virtually does nothing :/
     
  14. yasamoka

    yasamoka Ancient Guru

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    Be patient and do whatever you have to do to solve the situation temporarily. I have a life as well and I can't risk failing just to make a post about colors in a game.

    If you want me to post now, send my way a donation covering my college courses that I might fail.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2015
  15. Vercinaigh

    Vercinaigh Member

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    This response was very juvenile of you. A simple update was all that was needed. And when you give a hard deadline people tend to expect some sort of follow through.

    Further that, the solution is simply to "Deal with it" because there is no solution to it. So that response was a bit of a piss off on top of it and entirely lacking of sympathy from a guy whom surely would be just as bothered by it.

    And to top all of this off. The time it took you to write such a worthless response is more than it would have taken to simply say you're just very busy and still need time to catch up, which would have sufficed, malice was not required, and actually took more effort.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2015

  16. yasamoka

    yasamoka Ancient Guru

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    Re-read the posts you've been making for the last while, then come and complain about juvenile posts. I don't owe you anything, it's free software and if it doesn't work for you, don't use it. As for deadlines, I learned my lesson and I'm not going to give any more dates. I will post when I am free. Further posts that have no added value to the discussion will be ignored and reported from now on.
     
  17. Hilbert Hagedoorn

    Hilbert Hagedoorn Don Vito Corleone Staff Member

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    I'm sorry,

    Did you purchase anything from him ? Is he in any way obligated to you to update his free to download software ? Listen, I can understand your frustration but in the end this is a free tool from a programmer who absolutely has no obligationsto update if he doesn't have the time for it.

    Think of it what you want, but moaning like a kid about it certainly will not help you.
     
  18. jim2point0

    jim2point0 Maha Guru

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    Hmmmm. I've tried everything under the sun to lock profiles when playing fullscreen games. Then I found this....

    I figured I'd give it a try. But when I click "associate profile" the profile turns red and I do not believe it is getting applied.

    The profile was saved with the windows color calibration tool.
     
  19. yasamoka

    yasamoka Ancient Guru

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    Hey there. Profiles saved with Windows Color Calibration Tool do not have a vcgt tag that is necessary for the gamma ramps to be loaded into the graphics card LUT, so they cannot be loaded with any software that works in the way dispcalGUI, CPKeeper, MCW, or Color Sustainer works. You will need to use an alternative tool such as QuickGamma to generate such profiles.
     
  20. jim2point0

    jim2point0 Maha Guru

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    Hmmm. I'm finding that the quickgamma slider works very differently than the window calibration slider. I can't get it to where I had it with the windows tool. Quickgamma seems to change... contrast?

    I'll set the maximum possible gamma from the quickgamma tool and it's still darker than my windows calibrated profile. I'm confused...

    Are there any other tools that work and save compatible profiles?
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2015

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