Apple tries to justify slave labor and why U.S won't get it's work.

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Mkilbride, Jan 22, 2012.

  1. CronoGraal

    CronoGraal Ancient Guru

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    if the lot of you even cared | | <- this much you'd boycott everything that uses such labour

    but you wont, because you enjoy the luxery too much. i don't care if it's considered "evil", i embrace whatever it is theyre doing because it's working.
     
  2. midweskid

    midweskid Guest

    It's not. The fact is the could pay them better and have better working conditions. I'm not saying pay should be as high as someone doing the same work in a country where you have labor laws and a minimum wage, etc, but they could improve a lot of things while still making huge profit margins. This stands for all companies who go down this business route. If anything they could use it as marketing, saying we provide better wages and working conditions than our competitors. On a similar idea as the whole Fair Trade system you see with other products.
     
  3. deltatux

    deltatux Ancient Guru

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    Not sure about different locations but based on what I observed, advertising a product to be fair trade or not doesn't really affect a person's purchasing decisions. The end result of the product's quality and price determines a person's ultimate purchasing decisions.

    deltatux
     
  4. snowdweller

    snowdweller Master Guru

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    Apple are paying great wages and have great working conditions. FOXCONN have the poor conditions and wages. Apple would be paying THEIR (Apples) employees which are mostly retail shops and managers and engineers. You want apple to pay Foxconns emplyees as well as their own? Can I have some of Apples money while they're being generous :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2012

  5. The_Fool

    The_Fool Maha Guru

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    The adult minimum wage there is $10.25? I capped out at $10.24 here in the US working at this factory job. I'm told I reached the most I'll ever get paid at this job. I get no benefits at all and will not receive any more raises. In this economy I have no choice but to work here. It still doesn't hold a candle to how badly the Chinese are treated, though. Their government just doesn't care at all while mine cares enough.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2012
  6. The_Fool

    The_Fool Maha Guru

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    One person here and there boycotting is meaningless. The entire country would need to boycott to make any difference.
     
  7. CronoGraal

    CronoGraal Ancient Guru

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    Cool, then continue to support it. I know I will.
     
  8. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    That is why slave labour continues.

    People are against it, but only if the company is the one who takes a hit financially.

    It's consumer greed that fuels corporate greed.

    Not that i have an issue with any of that, it's just an observation.
     
  9. Mineria

    Mineria Ancient Guru

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    Considering production costs vs. company sale price I say it's Investor's greed.
    Consumers always pay if they can afford to, in the end it's the company that decides how much they earn pr. piece, and how many pieces they want to sell.
    If you think a 50% sale is a good offer you will be suprised knowing the truth.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2012
  10. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    True, but in a competitive market, pricing has to be as low as possible.

    They will pay what they can afford, even if that means using products that have been manufactured by slave labour etc...
     

  11. mcfart

    mcfart Master Guru

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    Cheap labor is fundamental to capitalism. However, it's still better then communism (government forcing people to work), Feudalism (basically a slave to your Lord), and good ol Roman/Egyptian Slavery.

    At least be happy that they're being paid something, while being able to live in a dormitory. It could be worse. If corporations could, they'd round up all the Blacks and teach them what they used to do before the Civil War.
     
  12. Sutura

    Sutura Master Guru

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    Such a long thread. Hi, all. There are some excellent points in these 3 pages, but I can't understand why people keep perceiving a company as a single human being or entity>? A company large, medium or small is not good or bad. It's business, it's capital and capital operates by the rules of the game. If they are looser it'll use it, if they are tighter it will abide by them. China ain't democracy on the first place, and second: the rules in China for foreign investors are A LOT- about 100. What is more the Chinese businessman have the reputation/ARE the toughest ones in the world when it comes to negotiating and making business. So all companies who operate there have a pretty good idea what they have bargained for.
    Capitalism, has its shortcomings, but so far has proved to be the only working system as opposed to planned economics (communism). And it splits the world in two: the center - countries like USA and the periphery as many others. So yeah the periphery is always following whatever happens in the center.
     
  13. IPlayNaked

    IPlayNaked Banned

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    WOW, the amount of delusion in this thread is astounding.

    And, first, if you guys didn't already know about this, holy crap, you're not worthy of discussing it.

    But, to the others. Points:

    1. Trying to translate their wage to ours is completely meaningless and pointless. Even within the US, a 50k salary which is nothing in New York is a nice living in Georgia.

    2. Let economies grow. They have to grow, if you start introducing wage laws into the mix, you're going to mess up the natural growth of an economy. You have to understand something; our first world economies all went through this exact phase, all had terrible working conditions and all had wages that seemed like it bought nothing.

    3. It's an upward spiral, not a downward one. It gets better from here, not worse. As people make money, they consume goods, as they consume goods, more jobs are created, as more jobs are created, they consume more goods, and this spirals upward into the thriving economies we know and love today.

    4. Believe it or not, people CHOOSE to do this work. They choose it. Before China (just using as an example) had huge factories to produce Western goods, what did they do? How did they support themselves? What alternatives did they have? They certainly didn't all starve and die in the absence of factory jobs...So why do they choose to do them?
    Because even with the harsh conditions and relatively low pay, they see it as a chance to break free from perpetually farming for food, and making your own clothes, toys, house. This is their door into our world, the one we love, in which we can work for what we want.

    Let me put that to you again. With some minor exceptions, like children put to work, people work because THEY choose that lifestyle. Life is better for them if they work hard and can support their family. The alternative is no easier. The alternative is growing your own food/livestock, borrowing and begging. The alternative is just as much if not more work for less. They dont quit work and live on their own for the same reason we don't, it's not as good, life's not as good.

    Now you can link me all the stories you want about actual slavary. People who are young, or handicapped, forced to work with no alternative. Obviously that's wrong, but that's not what this is. Any of those employees has the opportunity to not work at Foxconn, and live their lives as their ancestors did.

    It sounds harsh, but as an economy grows, these are the choices that have to be made. It's a step to a life like the one we enjoy, it's a necessary step, and you have to let it happen, so that they are not deprived of the luxiries we enjoy as the fruits of their labor. The US did exactly the same thing, went through the same thing. You can't go from having nothing, to having everything overnight.

    As for the suicide horror stories you see. It is influenced by the lifestyle, sure. But it's not as bad as it is made out to be. Foxconn's suicide rates? Lower, okay? LOWER than the general public's suicide rates. Suicide, as sick as it is to say, is part of the culture in China, it's something that people do as a gesture, it's something that has been around since before factories, before industrialization.

    Foxconn's suicide rate is lower than the rest of China. I'll leave you with that.
     
  14. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    HaHa, great post IPlayNaked.

    I was also thinking what would happen to the people if they weren't working here, if this is the best job they can get, how bad would the alternative be, plus i was always brought up to appreciate the chance to work, no matter how rough it is.

    Also like you said even within the US a good wage varies, i'm just back from New York where i was told that the average monthly rent was $3500, so $50k wouldn't go far at all.

    I'm sure if this wasn't about Apple, it would of been a much smaller thread.
     
  15. H83

    H83 Ancient Guru

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    I can´t believe people buy that bull**** story that electronics can only be cheap if they are made by cheap slave labour! This is so stupid it´s hard to believe! Electronics like any other objects are cheap because of advanced manufacturing processes and the economy scales not because of paying to much to workers. Just look at Intel, they produce basically eveything in the States at affordable prices. In Apple´s case and others it´s just pure greed that motivates them to produce in China and other similar places. With their margins they can afford to pay american or european workers without any problem. Not to mention they spend more money on bonuses to their board directors than they pay to those workers...


    In the future we are going to regret supporting this kind of companies by buying their products made out of slave workforce.
     

  16. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    Intel and affordable aren't always things people put together, my chip was cheap, but it was made in Costa Rica i think who pay their workers less than $2 an hour.

    You do need cheap labour for low prices, its like this now, and always has been, i don't think i own much if any electronics that were made in the UK or the US, plus as mentioned if you take these jobs away from these people, you will ruin their economy.

    So who do you suggest we support for not using slave labour, when nearly everyone does it?
    I either support "slave" workers or i have to live without all my toys.
     
  17. WindtalkerCS

    WindtalkerCS Master Guru

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    Is that a joke? Intel doesn't make any CPU's in the states.

    As a matter of point, they use foxxcon in China to actually fab the products, but Apple employs more American's that most other tech companies (even when you don't count their retail stores) since everything is designed and taped out in the US. Most other tech companies do all of the engineering outside of the US as well as the actual manufacturing. It's unbelievable to me that Apple gets all of the stink they do for this when there are many companies that deserve so much more of the blame.
     
  18. H83

    H83 Ancient Guru

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    I´m sorry but doesn´t Intel have most of it´s factories in the States? In Wiki, I know not the most accurate source, its says they have 7 out 9 factories in the States:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_manufacturing_sites

    Unless I´m seeing this the wrong way.

    And my point remains, electronics aren´t cheap because of cheap labour but because of mass production. Cheap labour it´s only used to increase margins/profits.

    Oh and Apple for me it´s just one of many that does the same ****, not better or worse than all the others...
     
  19. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    That is the fab sites, the 6 assembly sites (donkey work) are all outside the US.

    Cheap labour means cheap prices, as mass production is only possible when you have access to lots of cheap labour.
    If a company wants x amount of profit, they are either going to increase the retail price, or lower costs, no successful company chooses to decrease margins/profits.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2012
  20. Finchwizard

    Finchwizard Don Apple

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    Very true.

    I think people forget that's what companies are there for? People don't make companies to make other people happy.

    They continue to operate to make the most amount of profit imaginable. At any means possible.

    And no one here is going to pay more for something if it's made in your country. It's nice to think you will, but it never happens. Because people just can't afford to sustain that, people have other bills to pay and they have to survive themselves.
     

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