Apple tries to justify slave labor and why U.S won't get it's work.

This isn't just an Apple problem so don't point the finger squarely at them.

There's a lot of companies that have China and things produce things because it is cheap, that's just how it is.

And as bad as it sounds to us, the people over there are making a living and supporting their families. So while to us it's terrible, to them, while not ideal, it's still allowing them to support their families which would otherwise not be possible.

So to say Apple or any other company should just stop, you would still be ruining their lives because they can't make a living to support themselves or their families.

You can't force Western ideals and practices to Eastern countries. I would of thought people had realised that by now. They just don't operate the same.

 

men, this is dispicible, even i dont get paid this low in a wage in a year since i have been woking (and that is a long tiime). tehy shuold be done for this uke2:

 

mmm i like Apples

 

Working conditions could be better and pay could be a lot higher, there's no excuse for this. At least Apple or other companies could be at the forefront saying at least we make sure our supplies treat their employers good. Instead safety nets are placed so someone committing suicide can be forced back into work.

 

One thing i don't understand, Apple (like many others) are American. But don't support there own country and have no sympathy for other countries. Why do people STILL buy products don't support there own economy???

My mates don't care. They simply say " i don't care" or "Everyone does it" or even defend them.

Its a grey area. Its actually hard to bring this up in a conversation.

I asked a family friend parents and said the same thing. People don't care anymore. Just want to consume cheaply and support there own family in hopes it will end up good for them in the end.

Doesn't work when you keep continuing this trend. Especially all these statistics.

 

People are forgetting that while a wage seems terrible to us. You're applying Western pay rates and things and saying well that's terrible.

If you compare it to Eastern situation where what they are being paid is helping them support their family MUCH better than what people who aren't working over there.

And last I checked, it was Foxconn who was putting up safety nets. Not Apple.

And what else does Foxconn produce?

All those lovely Videocards, and Motherboards and other circuit boards are made there.

So you want to slam Apple, but forget about Dell? Asus? Cisco? Netgear? Nintendo? Sharp? Sony? Nokia? Logitech? IBM? Barnes & Noble? Amazon? Toshiba?

It's one thing to say Apple is evil and it's terrible over there, but they are not the only company, and while you may put your foot down to say you won't buy an Apple product again, what about all those other ones? Are you going to stop buying electronics period?

Yes it's terrible over there to us. But to them. It's giving them work, it's giving them a wage, and it's helping to support their family.

If you were to cut production there, you'd be ruining their lives and lively hood too.

Things aren't so black and white.

 

This, this and this.

 

This is exactly what I wanted to say. Their currency is much weaker compared to the USD, so their cost of living is lower (compared to western countries) as well. Obviously I'm not saying that their condition is ideal, its just that its not as bad as it seems when you directly compare it against the dollar/euro/pound etc.

I know people who make <50USD a month in Bangladesh, for them its decent enough but if you compare it to the western countries then that seems unbearable and inhuman, whereas the truth is that its not. If you ask them they will obviously say otherwise since everyone feels that they are entitled to more than what they are getting, but in reality as long as the pay is enough to support whoever they wish to support, its all good.

 

You know what Foxconns solution to all the suicides through their workers jumping off the factory roof? They put up nets :S

This is a pretty interesting article for those interested:

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/454/mr-daisey-and-the-apple-factory

What's more shocking is the trade in minerals, such as Coltan, to go into the mobile phones and computers we all use. The wars fought around the Congo and the genocide in Rwanda (millions died!) were linked to the Coltan trade, but hey at the time no one gave a **** because everyone got their Playstation 2 right?

The trade still continues but it's smuggled over the border and and then companies can claim it's from a legit supplier.

I really doubt anything will change

 

Ok ok, I'll stop complaining already.....geez.... All you had to do was ask!!! lol

Ok serious now.... you do make several good points. I won't highlight them all as I just qouted them....but you know which they are :nerd:

 

Let's go back to the rock

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7TiSkBLoPM&list=PLD85829E7156EFBE2&index=1&feature=plpp_video

 

Seeing that I have family who deals with Chinese factories directly for other markets (non-electronic) ones, I can pretty much safely say that this is just regular business in China. Nothing new nor surprising, I've been to some factories in China and yes it's grueling work and I hate doing it but people in the Western hemisphere want cheap products on demand, and the only way to do it is to have someone working really terrible shifts just to get as many products out the door at a low price.

Your favourite product be it electronics or not being made in China won't be priced at a reasonable price if it weren't for these grueling working conditions. Often people say being paid minimum wage is terrible and things like McJobs are terrible, but guess what, working at these factories are even worse. Hell, in China, there's no such thing as minimum wage.

It's something many people take for granted when they buy products, but once you've personally see these factories for ANY company, including ones that produce products destined to US companies like Walmart, you'll really know that there's a lot of painstaking work that went into that product and the workers are treated like sh!t. Apple's not the only company that have factories that grill their workers. There are many nameless companies who use a network of middleman to deal with factories to the point that you can't even pin the factory to the company who ultimately sells the end-product. The only why Apple gets grilled like this is because they deal with the factories directly and they are a big household name so it sounds even more shocking.

However, the point where it's made that the workers only eat once a week if lucky, I find that hard to believe because it'll actually be detrimental to the factories if your workers are starving, it actually decrease productivity. They wouldn't do anything that would decrease productivity in their factories, so based on this point, I find it really hard to believe.

Do I believe this is right? Hell no, but this is just how it is sadly and the world don't seem to care. Like it has been said in a few posts before this one, most consumers pretend to care until it hits their pocket. If China would apply the same worker's rights and establish a minimum wage (and there isn't a minimum wage) comparable to ones in North America, products like motherboards would be like $300 (ball park estimate) for a budget model (like the AMD 740G based motherboards).

I personally feel that this is just a flame thread on Apple just because there's a general hatred for Apple. Sure, Apple's patent wars are generally really stupid but they do design pretty good products.

deltatux

 

a little Company Portrait:
(sorry i used googletranslate so it could be strange to read..)

Apple Inc.
"In particular, socially and responsibly"

Products, Software and hardware from Apple, Mac, iPod, iPhone, etc.

Homepage:
www.apple.com

Company data:
Turnover (2007): $ 24 billion
Profit (2007): 3.5 billion dollars1
Employees: 19 000
Headquarters: Cupertino, California (USA)
Allegations:
Exploitation of workers in supplier factories
Environmental degradation
Apple is known as the hip alternative to Microsoft. Apple CEO Steve Jobs, according to the
Business magazine "Fortune" was the mächtigste2 and 2006 with nearly $ 650 million
Annual income of the highest-earning managers Welt3. Would have to pay for this one
Worker in China, which manufactures products for Apple, more than a million years work.
In the Chinese province of Shenzhen is the largest electronics manufacturing company in the world:
the industrial park "Foxconn City" and "iPod City". Employing about 200 000
Employees, most of whom are young women. Dangongmei ("little sister")
the workers are called, the work of agencies in impoverished regions of the
Country to be recruited. In Shenzen, they provide computers for the global market,
Communications and consumer electronics ago - about the iPod for Apple, but also
Hardware for Dell, Cisco and Hewlett Packard.
Daily working time of 15 hours, sometimes seven days a week, were there no
Exception, as the British Daily Mirror reported in June 2006. 4 The only merit I
amount to around $ 50 a month. That's less than the already low
statutory minimum wage. About half of the workers lived on the factory premises. In
the dormitories were often housed several hundred people, and visit
had been prohibited. Access to the premises guarded.
Independent unions are banned in China. Employees of "Foxconn - City"
According to the report were drilled as in the military. So you asked of them, for example,
to stand motionless for hours. Those who could not were punished. "They are like
1 Apple Annual Report 2007, http://media.corporate-
ir.net/media_files/irol/10/107357/reports/AAPL_10K_FY07.pdf
2 http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/21/news/newsmakers/power_jobs.fortune/index.htm
3 http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/12/lead_07ceos_Steven-P-Jobs_HEDB.html
4 Welcome to iPod City, Daily Mirror, 14.6.2006
Robot-treated, but they are much cheaper than robots, "says one observer. Apple showed
are officially horrified at the allegations and promised, among other things, the payment of
comply with statutory minimum wages. That are so low, however, that one of them
can not live, did not mention the Company.

here are updated news - sept. 2011..still same conditions..

-------------------------

It is true that Jobs was an impressive man with a strong sensitivity to the needs of the users of its products. And of course, earn everyone who still mourn the death of someone our empathy.

Nevertheless, one should not forget that account, how much suffering the jobs undertaken by the Group has brought about many people who deserve our empathy and their families as well. For example, the thousands of workers from the Apple economically dependent on China-based Foxconn, the men, women and children for the production of iPhones, Macbooks, iPad, iPod, and how it exploits all hot and some of them drove to suicide. See e.g., This recent article and this mission. Had jobs - with a personal fortune of around $ 7 billion and most recently as head of a group with an equally high annual income - not had the opportunity to prevent this?
----------------------------

well, im not saying apple is the only one, i just wanna make something clear..There are a lot o fcompanys that are doing it wrong..very wrong..nestle, bayer, adidas, nike, Mc Donalds, Nokia and many many more..

 

is it really the companys fault? dont this other places have goverments? it those places leaders that permit companys to do this.

 

Likely the government embraces it, if not all these huge companies will just take the work to a different country.

 

well cant blame the company for choosing that. you wouldnt choose to buy a video card on tigerdirect if it was 75% cheaper on newegg.

 

Poor work conditions is no ones fault but The factory itself. Why should it be Apples responsibility or any other companies for that matter to support and better the standards of another company. All you high and mightys go fix Foxconn yourself or stop telling this forum that its apples fault or nestle or Nokia or anyone elses but the employer.

The consumer demands the product which apple take that demand to the supplier/producer and get it made for the consumer. If you think its apples or someone elses problem then IMO its your problem to fix just as much as apple. Otherwise enjoy your products in ignorance like me.

To be fair im more than happy to pay full price for products being made in the same country it just means id have to save more money but the quality should be better and you'd also be supporting the local economy. Untill then though im happy to support slave labour as long as theyre happy to be slaves..

 

I don't blame them, well not any one in particular.

And yeah, if i could buy a fair trade GPU at £1000 or the identical one, but manufactured in places like this for £250, i know which one i would pick, and i think most would do the same.

 

To be honest, that's basically every other company. Most if not all companies would want China-like working conditions for their workers but only implement what they do due to laws and the penalties that have been enforced by the government.

I'm very sure if it's not mandated by law, my franchisee, through McDonald's Restaurants of Canada Ltd. wouldn't have required all workers to wear non-slip shoes while working and wouldn't provide any safety equipment. They'd probably rather not give me flexible work hours, have a minimum base pay of $10.25 (adult minimum wage in Ontario), automatic salary raise, benefits, and etc. A company like McDonald's which is considered a place where people choose not go do work at (or at least have that mental image) and work there as a last resort isn't all that bad when you compare to what other companies would do if these laws didn't exist like the case in China.

deltatux