Apple has removed Fortnite from its App Store

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Aug 14, 2020.

  1. vbetts

    vbetts Don Vincenzo Staff Member

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    For the longest time the only way to get Fortnite on Android was directly through Epic. This really didn't hurt the availability Fortnite on Android. Apple side, considering Apples strict approach on application downloading their app store is the only "official" way unless you want to go through Apple developer signatures(which is a pain in the ass). Currency wise, I don't think this will hurt them either. Considering you can link your account and play on pretty much any modern platform, one could easily go on another platform and buy credits to use on any platform.
     
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  2. Andy Watson

    Andy Watson Member Guru

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    But they only allow one operating system on their hardware and they only allow one store on that operating system. That is a monopoly! You wouldn't be able to charge 30% for so long if it wasn't....

    Compare that to the PC world with competing O/S throughout time, multiple stores, more than one browser etc etc due to MS being forced not to push their inbuilt programs.

    In comparison to that, this is very poor and the consumer suffers.
     
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  3. itpro

    itpro Master Guru

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    Almost a third is too much. o_O They should cut something. I am thinking, imagine baking three pizzas on a common oven and the onwer of the house demands one of the three, without paying anything, just as a demand for using that oven. And that person repeats that each time. :eek:

    Then you decide it is better to build a firewood oven at the yard to try keeping all three pizzas. Then owner gets mad and calls the police to boot you out of his property. What an ***. :rolleyes:
     
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  4. vbetts

    vbetts Don Vincenzo Staff Member

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    I feel like you're just being biased against Apple.... In general, a monopoly would mean there is no alternative available on the market in the product segment. In this case to an iPhone, you can get an Android device. There's thousands out there built with different build styles, qualities, features, etc. No one is forcing anyone to use an iPhone as a smartphone. You aren't buying a phone to put your own operating system on it, the time of the HD2 has long passed(and even then this was never officially supported or endorsed by HTC, Microsoft, Google, or any company that had an OS ported to the HD2). Not to make a pun here, but you're trying to compare apples to oranges.

    As I said, you don't buy a phone expecting to install a different OS, heck even a different app store for that matter. Smart phones are centralized embedded systems made to be closed off. PCs on the other hand, are built with flexibility in mind(although this can be argued with how some budget devices and prebuilt machines and partners design their systems). Different operating systems and what not, is users choice although you won't always get support from picking your own OS to use. Also think of how many downloads there are daily in the App Store, doesn't seem like consumers are hurting too much with how easy phones like the iPhone sell. But again, if you don't want an iPhone, you aren't forced to take it or nothing else. Android devices are a thing.

    Does McDonalds hold a monopoly because they're the only place you can get a Big Mac?
     

  5. Crazy Serb

    Crazy Serb Member Guru

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    Regardless what happens with this, people who are making Fortnite will still work like slaves and won't see any benefit if epic wins this. I don't know if they are in better position then Blizzard employees when it comes to salaries, but something tells me there will be layoffs if Epic lose this.

    In the end, it's all about epic Executives wanting 30% more money, and Apple wanting 30% of purchases on their store.
    If Epic did not liked their deal with Apple, they could easily remove their game from store, but if they did that, they would not be able to manipulate kids to defend them...
     
  6. Andy Watson

    Andy Watson Member Guru

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    Morning! I think I need to restate my view again as I am not biased against Apple but do not like anti competitive practices in general, they do fall into that bucket in my opinion.

    You say you don't buy a phone expecting to put an O/S on it and PC's are built with flexibility in mind, which, if you take the historical approach shows my point. IBM back in the day decided to take a non monopolistic approach and Apple have not. IBM were so successful in that they even put their PCs out of business as the market took over. Now you admire the PC for flexibility but excuse Apple for not having that? People do not put O/S on their phones, but why do Apple not allow their OS to be used on third party phones, put on by the hardware manufacturers? Obvious answer .. they would make Apple phones but cheaper ...

    The only reason now why PCs are so flexible is that luckily people did not go down the Apple route. Even Google with it's Android system sells its own hardware but also its software to competitors. In it's own software it allows other stores to work along side its store, Samsung store etc etc. Apple doesn't allow that.

    Their claim of security and the consumer experience for doing this the most obvious hypocritical part of course, it is purely down to money. Everyone agrees on that.

    Finally, you cannot define a monopoly as not being one by simply saying, well the consumer can buy something else, ie if there is a monopoly on the supply of bananas with profiteering and increased prices then you can always eat oranges instead ... QED no banana monopoly exists. It doesn't work that way.

    Note, I would say all the above for any company that did it that way. Even in the PC world Steam was getting so big that it seems the cut they were taking was not helping the consumer. Hats off to them for doing a good product, but I am glad that other stores are available and some competition. People will be giving stuff away for free at this rate ! That would be epic. Sorry, bad pun.

    Have a very nice day. ( as you are a mod I took my hat off whilst arguing of course in a subservient manner, as is proper ! )
     
  7. XenthorX

    XenthorX Ancient Guru

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    Hopefully i don't have to install every windows application by Microsoft Store, smartphone being the new personnal computer, i shouldn't have to install every application by a single store.
    When i buy product on internet, i usually have 4-5 payment alternatives, i don't have to use a single entity.

    Smartphone are portable computers, by controlling access to consumers, both Apple and Google just have an obscur way to control software developers that relies on this access to consumer.
    I don't even see how we have let this happen for so long, that's insane. My guess is that USA law turned a blind eye to those Monopoly while being too proud of having powerful world size companies ( or is it lobbying at work again?!).

    Fast forward 2020, Apple and Google have both enjoyed years of Monopoly, have become uncontrollable and bigger than any governement.
     
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  8. Backstabak

    Backstabak Master Guru

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    It is obvious why Apple and Google have banned them. But I think Epic has their main revenue base on PC so they likely don't mind the loss of some sales, since it's kind of an advertisement. Maybe they even hopped to drag some iphone players to PC, because fortnite would run on almost anything.
     
  9. XenthorX

    XenthorX Ancient Guru

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    Marketplace owners should fight to bring quality content to consumers be it software, series, movies all the same:
    Netflix/Prime/HBO/.. Microsoft/Apple/Linux..
    Instead of that working healthy competition environment, mobile app marketplace owners just defend their monopolistic positions.
     
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  10. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

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    What qualifies Apple as a monopoly is the fact that you're forced to use their App Store if you own an iPhone, iPad or iPod. There is no alternative at all. Apple won't permit an alternative to exist. That's a monopoly.

    Changing "platforms" isn't always an option. I'm stuck with Android because of certain apps I use and need. If I were to switch to an iPhone, I lose access to those apps and would be forced to carry 2 devices with me. Theoretically, those apps could be released on Apple products, except most of their functions violate Apple's policies.

    Steam does not have an exclusive right to distribute games digitally. EPIC, however, does have a legal right to distribute their games how they see fit.

    Competition in EVERY market is a good thing. Not everyone likes Steam. Personally, I prefer Origin.
     
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  11. Andy Watson

    Andy Watson Member Guru

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    The problem with Apple is that back in the 1980s they had a captive market, and were rich.

    Then IBM completely shoved their bespoke ass with a non monopolistic way of working. Apple suffered.

    [​IMG]

    "We look forward to responsible competition". They got that in spades :D And almost died. Now they don't

    After that beating they grew up to be an adult who promised to

    NEVER EVER BE HUNGRY AGAIN.

    And now they are a very rich entity that has lost it's moral compass.

    They make so much money that they even sneak away money in backward countries such as Ireland so they end up with hiding billions of billions of dollars whereas they should be being paid in the USA.

    So from the end user to entire nations people are not happy. This does not happen by chance

    Why does a company need to make so much money they don't even know what to do with it apart from having to "make more"???

    A tech company should make enough money to be successful, give things back to the tech crowd, and have more than enough for the next big leap. Or if they fail miserably to do that then the authorities should step in.

    As a geek who hates paying for shareholders I am not sure why this is such a contentious ideal?????

    Are people on here arguing for Apple shareholders? Do you own shares in Apple ? Just askin'
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2020
  12. WalterDasTrevas

    WalterDasTrevas Member Guru

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    Any brand other than a franchise is a monopoly.
    The Apple Store brand is the product, after all, let's face it, if you remove the brand, Apple products are inferior to competitors in many ways.
    Apple charges for delusions of grandeur. :cool:
    Something 100% compatible with the doctrinal patriotism that occurs with part of the USA population. I'm not generalizing;)
     
  13. JAMVA

    JAMVA Member Guru

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    Looks like apple & google just broke a new EU law that came into effect last month:-

    14th July 2020

    "New EU regulation came into play at the start of the week that applies to digital storefronts, most notably Apple and Google’s for mobile devices. With the new regulations significantly strengthen the rights of those selling through such marketplaces."

    "Platforms will have to provide 30 days notice to publishers before removing content from stores, allowing them time to appeal or make changes to their software. So no immediate and opaque bans"


    https://www.mcvuk.com/business-news...-and-publishers-in-dealings-with-storefronts/

    Looks also like Tim Sweeney already had a beef with Apple:-

    "All of this follows the recent announcement of an EU antitrust probe against Apple, specifically the App Store and Apple Pay, which may further clip the wings of the store and its practices, and which Tim Sweeney threw his support behind recently"

    https://www.mcvuk.com/business-news...nor-accept-a-special-deal-just-for-ourselves/
     
  14. Corrupt^

    Corrupt^ Ancient Guru

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    Accessibility for new players while maintaining a good difficulty/skill ceiling curve is the way to go, a lot of devs/publishers don't seem to understand this, EPIC with Fortnite did however. But it's not my cup of tea, not a fan of the art style/setting of the game.
     
  15. Andy Watson

    Andy Watson Member Guru

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    We've got Donald banning Tiktok and Apple banning Fortnight.

    Welcome to 2020!

    The kidz will be up in arms as long as they get distracted to the next meme .... they are like Goldfish.

    Makes you think. When was the last time a kid used a soldering iron on a PC?

    hmmmmm

    Or even moved a jumper to get the IRQ channel right?
     
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  16. Sixtyfps

    Sixtyfps Member Guru

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    Yes Epic came in and tried to take some of the market that steams has but how does steam have the market you ask ? Perhaps they offer the best service and much more. Now that epic exists and is trying to steal the market away from epic at what cost the gamers ? On paper Epic and steam look like they did kinda the same thing i will agree but did steam shut down an entire game and servers because the Fornite and cash grab that prays on little children to spend money ? I think if you look at the details you will see Epic and Steam are 2 very different companies. Team fortress 2 is still played today same with LFD even servers are still up ? Alot of people love steam and your right people will argue for them to the death for good reason. They take care of the supporters/customers and dont Ax staples games that identify them as a company. Please tell me more how EPIC didnt shut down Unreal tournment and sell gears of war ? Epic is a greedy company which soul purpose is about Money. Steam is about money as the are a buisness but IMO they never sold there games out for a cash grab lets be honest. Also IMO i dont think steam/Valve has come out with anything new because perhaps it would destroy there eco system. Yet Epic has no eco system and just bunch of lemmings who jump when they see a carrot dangled in front of there nose
     
  17. Chances are they tried to "extort" Epic/People Can Fly & when they refused to capitulate to unrealistic demands of Apple's in addition to already over the top demands of the AppStore Apple dropped them. Typical. Apple's days are numbered. Underneath people are innately liberal and want more autonomy and expression; something Apple is against - ironic considering the way the company began.
     
  18. coth

    coth Master Guru

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    On the hearings in congress Cook was saying - "For the vast majority of apps developers keep a 100% of the money they made. The only apps are subject to commission are those where developers acquires a customer on an Apple device and where the features and services will be experienced and consumed on an Apple device."

    That's just unacceptable level of hypocrisy and impudence. He was just smiling and laughing in face of congressmans.

    Not talking about the fact of total control over any competitor in the Store. Hope Epic Games, Telegram and Eurocommission will finally force Apple to allow independent markets in iOS and sideloading.
     
  19. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

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    You've just proven Apple has a monopoly.... If you're using an iPhone, there is no alternative to Apple's App Store. Having Android phones existing, doesn't change the fact that Apple has a monopoly.

    https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/monopoly.asp
    Understanding Monopolies
    According to that, Apple has a monopoly since they have total control over access to apps on their products....
     
  20. It would seem Apple intends to be a Monopoly. However, the fair caveat is what is the alternative? Regulating the EULA? Making sure Apple cannot restrict OS X to Apple platforms only? You can imagine where I am going with this. They did create OS X, iOS, develop the ecosystem and platforms that they coincide with. It's not so straightforward and simple. The US doesn't update much in the way of digital law federally and if it does rarely enforces stuff with a great track record. Perhaps this is why we've been seeing the EU become more aggressive as of late with Google, UBER, Apple and Facebook.
     

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