AOC showcases fast 240 Hz AGON G-SYNC monitor

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Aug 16, 2017.

  1. Hilbert Hagedoorn

    Hilbert Hagedoorn Don Vito Corleone Staff Member

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    AOC will unleash its latest 240 Hz gaming monitor, which will be available in the second week of August. Apart from its impressive refresh rate, the AOC AGON AG251FG boasts a 1 ms response time, NVIDI...

    AOC showcases fast 240 Hz AGON G-SYNC monitor
     
  2. The Edge

    The Edge Active Member

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    TN, 1080p, 500+€ @2017 - god please this has to stop.
     
  3. drac

    drac Ancient Guru

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    It has its place in competitive gaming. As for 90% the rest of us that are not worried about the nth degree of responsiveness and want better visuals without breaking our arms with low mouse sens, we've got 1440, 4k and in between.

    I wonder if 1080p screens will phase out eventually though, don't seem to be slowing down at all. I guess people will always want to run low mouse DPI for low sens, therefor needing less pixels (1080) to retain any sort of precision.
     
  4. The Edge

    The Edge Active Member

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    I know it has its place in gaming. But it has this place for years now. I'm using a 120Hz FHD TN myself and I would never go back to a lower refresh rate, but at the same time I would never buy another TN. You have 1ms high refresh VA panels even with sync for much less.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2017

  5. SoloCreep

    SoloCreep Master Guru

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    It is without a doubt meant for eSports and people who want every bit of edge they can get. I personally would love a monitor like this for Quake Champions.
     
  6. drac

    drac Ancient Guru

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    AFAIK TN is still superior to VA and IPS when it comes to input lag and motion clarity. True though, it's not by much.
     
  7. drac

    drac Ancient Guru

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    For sure. I wouldn't have the desk space though.
     
  8. The Edge

    The Edge Active Member

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    I have nothing against these monitors as such. But at least they should be cheaper. But yeah, people are buying everything that has "gaming" and "esports" tag slapped on it for almost any price.
     
  9. The Edge

    The Edge Active Member

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    Back in 2013 EIZO had IPS FS2333 which had absolutely no input lag at all. (1ms worst case) Basically the only thing it lacked was higher refresh rate. I was always hoping that we would reach such stage by now.
     
  10. waltc3

    waltc3 Maha Guru

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    I agree wholeheartedly about 1080 & 25"--the difference between 1080P and 1440P is night and day. But they are also introducing new 27" QHD and 4k panels, as well.

    If you could see my 27" 1ms gtg, .23 dot pitch QHD monitor--a TN--you'd never, ever say that again...I promise you...;) It's simply better image quality than a similar IPS monitor--I actually was able to compare--sitting 18 inches back from both. IPS is better if you want a room full of people to watch a movie from different viewing angles at some distance--it's no better at all than a quality TN panel for a single desktop user, though--and generally with IPS you pay more for less than or equal to. More than a year ago I compared in use over the span of a week a cheap Dell 1920x1080 IPS to a cheap HannsG 1920x1200 TN, and came away convinced the TN had better IQ, noticeably. (And my present QHD TN blows the HannsG away.) Response times are better, dot pitch is better on a TN, usually--and a discerning shopper can find really nice TNs at very affordable prices.

    Also, I am not in the least interested in all the add-on proprietary nVidia junk--ugh. Precisely because if I had a nVidia GPU and decided to dump nVidia and go to AMD, then all of the junk in my monitor becomes worthless. Far better if nVidia dumped it and went with ATI's Freesync method--then it wouldn't matter. nVidia also uses this to keep customers in line--because if you buy an expensive monitor with Gsync, etc. inside it's doubtful that next year or next month you will want to buy a GPU that doesn't support the proprietary stuff you paid extra for when you bought the monitor. that's the kind of crap Dell used to do--and maybe still does, AFAIK...Ugh!
     

  11. robintson

    robintson Master Guru

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    £519 for a TN panel. Congrats AOC. Who would give that amount of cash for a TN monitor?
     
  12. Mineria

    Mineria Ancient Guru

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    The difference comes when you go with semi to full professional panels, TN does not provide the needed color accuracy.
    For gaming it all goes on preference and calibrating the display for the task, at that point even a TN can look as good and better in some circumstances
    I doubt that the majority of game textures are made in 10-12bit.
    Most IPS/VA gaming panels won't even be able to show more than 8bit either.

    So which kind of sync would you go with apart from v-sync?

    Besides that, G-Sync is far from crap.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2017
  13. Mineria

    Mineria Ancient Guru

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    A professional gamer that doesn't want to drag to much weight around?

    240 Hz + G-Sync in addition to that TN still has the quickest response helps on the price as well.
     
  14. Witcher29

    Witcher29 Maha Guru

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    My VA panel is 8 bit Samsung C27FG70
     
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  15. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    These stats are kind of fake, unfortunately. TN is still the only panel type that can actually accommodate these high refresh rates. With 200Hz VA you get motion blur because that "1ms" stat isn't actually true.

    You might not want to hear it, but TN is still the only option for very high refresh rates. With non-TN, the most important aspect or a very high refresh rate, which is image persistence, is mostly negated. Yes, you can do it with VA and IPS too. But then you're getting the same motion blur as on 120Hz. With a TN panel that really has 1ms response time, 240Hz will actually give you lower motion blur.

    Interesting fact: Even with 240Hz + 240FPS on TN, motion blur is still not as good as on a 60Hz CRT monitor. You'd need about 1000Hz and 1000FPS for that. Which is why with current technology, super high refresh rates are impractical.

    In the more immediate future, only OLED can deliver on that front; it can give us CRT-like motion clarity even at 60Hz by using a rolling scan output (like a CRT does.) But it seems OLED is on a perpetual "Coming Soon (TM)" state... :p Or it might be because the manufacturers want to milk us thoroughly first, by selling all possible combinations of TN/IPS/VA and all refresh rates and HDR and whatever else, and then give us OLED.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2017

  16. claydough

    claydough Active Member

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    Besides how poorly or well the LCD is lit...

    With rec 709 rec 2020 WCG color accuracy/fidelity standards rising to allow for an HDR future. What is the downside of such TN panel compared to slower IPS screens? ( Always thought as much was for color fidelity? If HDR10 wide color gamut accuracy is now possible with TN where is the IPS advantage when TN is has better latency generally? )

    Was always a simple choice for me. Would had liked to have an expensive IPS monitor years ago for graphics but opted for 120hz+ speeds and 1ms latency.

    Bout the time IPS became faster...
    I looked at any monitor a temporary stop gap wasted luxury purchase while I am waiting for a viable affordable HDR/OLED or self emitting QLED diode when ready. In which case I can sit on TN till there is some sanity in the monitor market ( or till there is a "relevant" 32" TV market again )

    Otherwise it is just infuriating that the tech has existed for several years already! We are waiting for existing tech that is just being released this year for insane prices as if the tech was brand new ( not existing for years already ).
     
  17. claydough

    claydough Active Member

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    With all the big data monitoring corporations are concerned with...
    I fear they have no accounting for lost purchases or accounting for saturated markets that are far from dead.

    As a fan of surround/eyefinity that has been sitting on his hands since 2011 waiting every year for that low latency FAST future with the color fidelity of HDR and rich dramatic blacks and contrast ratio of OLED...

    I probably would had opted in for a sane priced HDR option in 2012 and then would had upgraded yet again in 2013 if I had a path that looked as good as my damn phone.

    With multi monitoring gaming that's a loss of 9 sales by my accounting and there is no way I am opting in this late in the game.. basically sitting on my hands. Does all the facebook/cookie/google/win 10 market research data collection harvesting "actually" account for enthusiast desire?
    After all a market sitting on it's hands is not a dead market! ( just butt hurt )

    Nothing has really been happening for awhile now!

    ( still considering just going with last years 55" LG B6 OLED before all the 3D stock is gone :( And give up on the rest of this decade! )
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2017
  18. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    There is no latency difference in TN vs IPS or VA. It's pixel response times that differ. The impact pixel response has on latency is minuscule. It has an impact on high refresh rate motion clarity, however.

    At 120Hz, you have a pixel persistence time of 8.3ms (1000/120.) And that's what you really get on a fast IPS. However, at 240Hz, the persistence time is 4.2ms. Only a TN will give you that low persistence. An IPS will see no motion clarity increase. A "4ms IPS" panel has about 5ms, 6ms or even 7ms real-world pixel transition time. A TN however can have as low as 2 or 3ms pixel transition time, which means 240Hz and even 480Hz will give lower motion blur. An IPS (and especially a VA) can not do that. Current fast IPS panels usually will max out at 144Hz. More than that (like the 165Hz IPS panels) will not result in any further decrease in motion blur.

    You can get the same effect with backlight strobing though (ULMB, LightBoost, etc.) 120Hz ULMB has less motion blur than 480Hz non-ULMB, for example. But backlight strobing has issues (crosstalk, severely decreased light output, maybe colors become worse, contrast can become worse...)

    IMO, our best bet for CRT-like motion quality are "strobed" OLEDs (in quotes because OLEDs don't need a backlight; it's the pixels themselves that are strobed.) These 240Hz and the upcoming 480Hz LCD panels are impractical for current GPU technology. One day we'll probably get there (by using reprojection for example to convert low FPS to high FPS, as is currently done in VR headsets), but that's further away in the future compared to OLED panels. For reference: A low-persistence 85Hz OLED has lower motion blur than a 480Hz TN panel... 85Hz is waaaay more practical than 480Hz with today's technology.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2017

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