Anything between X1800 XT and R580 ?

Discussion in 'Videocards - AMD Radeon' started by Zenoth, Nov 3, 2005.

  1. Zenoth

    Zenoth Maha Guru

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    Hi.

    Do you guys know, or think that ATi will eventually release a "Platinum Edition" of their X1800 XT ? Or perhaps a version with re-done cooling or technology such as a X1850 series ?

    Before they paper-launch R580 that is.
     
  2. The Kyle

    The Kyle Banned

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    Who knows. They are sure taking their sweet time though :p.
     
  3. togglemuch

    togglemuch Member Guru

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    Like I said before, I like how ATI is taking the AMD route. AMD was building quality clock for clock performance processors before they got noticed in gaming too much. It takes time to build an empire, but an empire can't be built on today's modern "Quantity before Quality" train of thought. Some losses can be had before a full frontal attack on the market occurs.

    My guess, is that their 24 pipe card will compete well with whichever Nvidia has out at the time, though they will still not be in mass availability.

    Over time, they will prove to be the ones on top, if they keep their heads straight that is.

    Maybe I'm wrong, and they're just sitting back there spanking each other with cowboy hats on, but hopefully they're doing things much more efficiently than Nvidia. I personally am not a fanboy of ATI, but I do like the way they do business.
     
  4. Zenoth

    Zenoth Maha Guru

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    Well, I'm asking this because I pre-ordered my X1800 XT 512MB copy just last week.

    My store called me today and confirmed the arrival of the first copies next week, and asked me if, as a client, I simply wanted to keep my interests towards buying the card, or not, so he could order an efficient amount of copies, and not actually too much, since, locally, not a lot of people want to buy that specific GPU, mostly because they simply don't know it exists, or is too expensive at the moment.

    So, I told to myself ... "hmmm, yes I'm still very interested, and I do have the money for it, of course, the reason why I pre-ordered ... but what if ATi releases a PE, or another more efficient, powerful version of it in about one or two months ?".

    I will certainly get an heart attack knowing I'm gonna make a 860 meters hole in my bank account when buying the XT.

    But if, in less than two months, a new version comes out at a very similar price ... then I might well cry (not seriously of course I'm joking). One thing is for sure though, I'd be extremely pissed off.
     

  5. togglemuch

    togglemuch Member Guru

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    Well I would definitely wait if you're having to pay quite a bit mor ethan the 7800gtx is right now. The prices are always expensive when they first come out, and plus since you are interested in future versions waiting could be a good option.

    If I were you, I would wait (if the price is a lot compared to the 7800 GTX) or get one of these, and cop it on ebay later to get a newer version. But I'm pretty sure the PE (If released) will just be an OC'd x1800 xt, because they can OC upwards of 1GHZ, and timings will be shorter. I'm sure someone will test the bios of the PE (if released..) on their X1800xt to see if it works, so you may be able to do that.

    I dont know though, after all is said, it's still your decision on whether you want to spend the money now or later, because it's getting spent either way.
     
  6. Zenoth

    Zenoth Maha Guru

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    I really ... really want the X1800 XT.

    And am "interested" in a future version *only* if somehow I get the confirmation that ATi is planning to release such a new version in just a few weeks to "counter-attack" the upcoming 512 MB version of the 7800 GTX.

    And, let's pretend such a version comes out (XT PE, or perhaps X1850 series) in two months. Then, the question I'm asking to myself is ... will we have news on R580 in two months ? Perhaps official details ?

    Now let's pretend XT PE is released in late December or early January, but ATi also decides to give details about R580 at the same time, and tells us it will be paper-launched sometime in April or May ...

    I mean ... it's a never ending cycle.

    In my book it sounds as follows when it comes to PC components: You never buy it. You test it.

    Yes, technically you do "buy" it. But there's something more subtle to that.

    I means that people like me, who want to pay for something new, but "final", will keep it for a long time, even if after that, a new architecture comes out.

    But, if I buy the X1800 XT, and ATi announces XT PE, then the regular XT wouldn't have been the definitive "final" version within the R520 series until the brand new generation architecture that follows.

    That's what I want. The final product of the R520 line. Not a "top end" product that's finally "top end" for just two months.

    I'm like that.

    The last GPU I bought was the Radeon 9800 Pro 128 MB.

    And at that time, I "thought" I had the top of the line. But no, an XT version was later released.

    There is still a bit of hope on the horizon though.

    Because, as you said, if they do release a PE version, then it will only have the Core and Memory frequencies higher.

    Because if they decide to give the PE version more Pixel Pipelines and / or Vexter Pipelines, then I'm gonna seriously think about suing my own self.
     
  7. GAR818

    GAR818 Maha Guru

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    LOL....please dont talk about ATI releasing anything, intill they can get an x1800xt out.....all 10 of them.
     
  8. Zenoth

    Zenoth Maha Guru

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    Thanks for your input on the subject.
     
  9. MrPhyX

    MrPhyX Member

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    I had this situation last year,and came to the conclusion that it dont matter (as long as money is not an issue) because there is allways something else coming out and as soon as it is theres another top end card on the way.

    It was December and i wanted a X800XT,then i found out there was a platinum edition so i waited and waited finally got my hands on one, paid over the odds, then found out there was a X850 a few months later .
    The impact a top end card will have on you will allways be great but theres allways another more powerfull one on its way.

    I'm waiting for the X1800XT also .
     
  10. double_cut

    double_cut Ancient Guru

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    Quick question to the OP; is there any real reason why you wouldnt want the 512MB version of the 7800GTX if the rumours we are seeing now are true concerning clock speeds?
     

  11. double_cut

    double_cut Ancient Guru

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    lol, i know that feeling, when I got my X800 Pro and modded it to X800XT PE I felt well pleased sitting at the top of the ATI pile. Then the X850s came out, ah well. :)
     
  12. MrPhyX

    MrPhyX Member

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    No reason why i would not,
    As long as its as good as the competition.
     
  13. double_cut

    double_cut Ancient Guru

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    Sorry that was directed at the OP, but thanks for answering anyway. Do you think a 7800GTX clocked at 550/1800 (or even near that) wouldnt be able to fend off the X1800XT 512MB? Someone ran some figures recently and, in mtexel terms at least, the X1800XT would have to be clocked at 800+MHz core to match it. Also consider the *substantially* lower clocked 7800GTX 256MB version does a decent job of fending off and at least staying competitive with the X1800XT 512MB in most games and tests.

    Obviously these new specs could be a load of hogwash, but its certainly an interesting development. :)

    I wouldnt be surprised to see a X1800XT PE at some point, but I cant see the clocks being set high enough to beat the 7800GTC 512MB on traditional dual slot cooling. ATI themselves acknowledged that they appreciate Nvidia still had headroom to clock their chips more, almost as if they were expecting such a move. Roll on the R580 I say.
     
  14. Zenoth

    Zenoth Maha Guru

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    I don't really want to go with nVidia's GeForce 7 series.

    I find the R520 architecture to be better, not to mention that I honestly need H.264 support. And it's the first "true" new architecture since Radeon 9700 came out. Before that, it was only a refresh over another.

    I like: 90nm process, Ultra-Threading Dispatch Processor (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/radeon-x1000_4.html), branch execution unit into each pixel processor, which dramatically increased performance of dynamic branching, a crucial capability of pixel shaders 3.0, Ring Bus memory controller, and a few other features that saw themselves optimized, such as 3Dc+. And etc.

    It's costy, eats power, and is supposed to be loud. But honestly ... I don't care about such "issues".

    I'm curious enough to actually experience how will this ATi generation do.

    Since I've completely ignored the X800 / X850 series.

    I had the following ATi GPU's in the past: Radeon 9500 Pro, Radeon 9600 XT, Radeon 9800 Pro.

    And the following nVidia GPU's: GeForce MX 440 SE, GeForce Ti 4600, GeForce 6600 GT.

    My "host" (main) system is currently running on my actual signature (system specifications), minus the GPU, which is actually the Radeon 9800 Pro.

    And my "client" system runs on the GeForce 6600 GT, with a lesser CPU (A64 3000+ Venice), and 512 MB of DDR Ram.

    Plus, ATi still have to release a Catalyst version that really supports the new X1K series, especially with the most awaited OpenGL improvements (even though I personally only own one OpenGL-based game, which is Natural-Selection, a modification for Half-Life). In my opinion, we've yet to see X1800 XL's and X1800 XT's real potential in terms of real world performance. Instead of benchmarks done in "best conditions", such as no software Firewall / Anti-Virus / Web-Browser pages open / Music program running at the same time, etc.

    I hope it answers your question.
     
  15. double_cut

    double_cut Ancient Guru

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    Partially. ;)

    I have a few other questions if you dont mind; why would you use a 9800 Pro (obviously still an awesome card, I used to run one in my 2nd rig) over a 6600GT (also excellent, never owned one but used plenty) which has been shown as substantially faster in a number of tests?

    Re: The Open GL wonder driver; tests have already been done using the tweaked drivers and the performance increases are certainly impressive, especially in the case of Doom 3, I really cant see the release driver being much if any better bar the extra support for the other modes of antialiasing outside 4x multisampling. Do you really believe these memory controller tweaks, which have given ATI a roughly 5% overall lead in Doom 3 with AA enabled, will be able to counter a 550/1800 (or even close to that) 512MB 7800GTX?

    Re: Features; 90nm I like now its actually here (sort of) and the other funky features the X1800 supports (especially the programmable memory controller), but I wouldnt tout 3Dc or its evolutions as being a particularly useful features. As a X800 owner, outside tech demos I saw absoutely zero advantage of having 3Dc support in games or benchmarks. Also worth noting that these features, combined with insane clocks, already go towards making up the difference due to the natural advantage the 7800GTX has due to having 24 pipelines over 16. Even now the 7800GTX 256MB, depending where you read, still outpaces the X1800XT in many tests and games, do you think these features can secure a lead over the substantially higher clocked and 512MB version of the GTX?

    Re: H.264 support; rumours are circulating, and have been for some time, that Nvidia plans to support this standard through drivers thanks to the programmable nature of the VPU on the 7800. Although there have been other rumours that thanks to Microsoft's involvement this wont be an option so I appreciate what your're saying here.

    Re: Real world testing; have there been any indicators that real world (ie. running with other apps open etc) rather then "best condition" testing would alter anything? Iv not seen any differences between my ATI and Nvidia cards (although I normally dump whatever other task im running, winamp or whatever on the 2nd logical core thanks to HyperThreading, with ur X2 you could obviously do the same) regarding relative gaming performance while multitasking.

    Thank you again for answering my questions. :)

    For the record I have owned or own the following from either camp recently(ish):

    ATI: Radeons 8500, 9550 modded to 9600, 9600 Pro (very briefly), 9800 Pro and X800 Pro VIVO modded to XT PE (current)

    Nvidia: GeForces 3, 3 Ti200, FX 5600 (worst card iv ever owned), 5900SE, 6800NU and 6800GT flashed to Ultra (current)
     

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