Anyone try X800XL AGP to softFireGL?

Discussion in 'RivaTuner Advanced Discussion forum' started by obsceneGFX, May 6, 2005.

  1. obsceneGFX

    obsceneGFX Member

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    I just picked up an ATI X800XL AGP, but I will sell it if there's no way to get it to work with the softfiregl mod. I was previously using a 9800pro as a FireGL X2.

    There doesn't seem to be support for my XL, as I get the warning message "This script is not intended for your VGA adapter" from the unified patch script, before it successfully modifies the driver file.

    I went ahead and edited the 8.083 driver for an X3, and the driver installs fine, but after rebooting, the driver doesn't load apparently, and I get stuck with a 4-bit colour desktop.

    I also tried sebbe_sabb's v7100 script edits, with the same results.

    Anyone have any luck with this card, or have any advice to share?

    Thanks anyway!
     
  2. obsceneGFX

    obsceneGFX Member

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    I've been experimenting for hours to get the 8.083 driver to work, but when I tried using the 8.062 driver, it worked right away! So at least I know my card is moddable.

    I don't understand what's going with the 8.083. Yet.

    With the experience I've gained today, I now see that my above comment about the warning message was silly and irrelevant. :)

    Back to popping more blood vessels...
     
  3. Lord Banshee

    Lord Banshee Master Guru

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    GPU:
    X1950XT 512 @ FireGL 7350
    You said you got it to work in 8.063. If so did you run SpecView? If so did you run your card in real programs (3dsmax/Maya/XSI/etc.) because the guys that did that X800XL PCIE to V7100 did great in SpecView but said that real world apps like 3dsmax the proformance was worse than when it was set to X800XL. So i am hoping this is a PCIE issue as i was looking into that X800XL AGP :)
     
  4. sebbe_sabb

    sebbe_sabb Member

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    Greets,
    Nice to see that you got the driver to install. I just wish to clarify that the only Ogl-application I tested with my x800xl->v7100 was I-deas NX. Other Ogl-softwares might work better. I also had a 9800->FireGLX2 before, and that card performed beautifylly in I-deas NX with hacked drivers.
    The only way to be certain that your favourite OGl-software performes better with hacked drivers is to benchamrk it using the application.
    /Sebbe_Sabb
     

  5. obsceneGFX

    obsceneGFX Member

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    Well, I still can't get 8.083 to work. I have a multi-boot system with 4 OS partitions, and use an XP test partition to experiment with different drivers, software, and settings. I have it imaged at many different states so I can easily switch between a completely fresh install to a highly optimized version loaded with programs.

    Here's my core system details

    A7N8X Deluxe 2.0
    AXP 2500+ Mobile @ 2500MHz (I changed to stock clocks on everything to eliminate that variable for now)
    1024MB Corsair TwinX 3200LL
    ATI X800XL AGP

    I was considering upgrading to an Althon64, but I don't like any of the motherboards on the market right now! None have the right combination of features I want.

    This X800XL has been a pain in the ass because it forced me to upgrade my Antec Truepower 550, which made a loud buzzing noise during heavy 3d rendering. I bought an Antec Neopower 480 which solved the problem. The other thing is that the X800XL AGP is a huge card, and barely fits in my loaded case. There also doesn't seem to be a compatible version of the AC Silencer yet, which I definitely need because I run a silent system.

    The 8.062 driver and control panel works perfectly, and I know it's working because in Alias StudioTools 11 PLE the difference is very apparent compared to the problematic Catalyst drivers. In GLInfo, the Catalyst driver shows 54 supported formats, and the FireGL driver 88.

    I'm downloading SpecView right now, and will post the results later.

    There is actually one problem with the 8.062, and it's that I can't install the drivers for the VIVO components (Rage Theater). I tried using the Catalyst WDM drivers, but XP doesn't recognize the INF files as valid when the FireGL driver is installed. I wonder if anyone has VIVO working in FireGL mode.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2005
  6. sebbe_sabb

    sebbe_sabb Member

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    Here is how I got 8083-drivers to work on my x800xl (with fast specviewperf but slow Ideas NX)
    1. unpack 8083-driver (extract files in exe)
    2. unpack .dl_ files in Driver\2KXP_INF\B_19827
    3. edit rivatuner softfiregl w2k.rts and add:
    DstVar6 = force FireGL V7100 capabilities
    Dst2_6 = 0F B7 85 02 FF FF FF 66 25 00 00 66 0D 50 55 66 89 85 02 FF FF FF 90
    4. patch driver by doubleclick edited script above
    5. edit cx_19953.ini in \driver\
    add 0x554D,0x556D below
    [WINXP]
    Label=R6
    R6=DriverPath_R6
    6. edit \driver\install.ini and add 0x554D,0x556D below [winxp]
    7. edit \driver\2kxp_inf\cx_19953.inf and add
    "Soft FireGL V7100" = ati2mtag_R423GL, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_554D
    "Soft FireGL V7100 Secondary" = ati2mtag_R423GL, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_556D
    8. the driver is now possible to install by doubleclicking setup.exe

    I think that agp-x800xl has different vendorids, so thoss 554d & 556d must be changed.

    /Sebbe_sabb

    4. patch driver by doubleclick edited script above
    5. edit cx_19953.ini in \driver\
    add 0x554D,0x556D below
    [WINXP]
    Label=R6
    R6=DriverPath_R6
     
  7. obsceneGFX

    obsceneGFX Member

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    The deviceids are the same (554d & 556d).

    I will try this, thanks a lot!

    I ran the Spec benchmark for the first time. Damn it's long! I don't know if this is normal, but many of the scenes had a stutter at the beginning where they seemed to reset position a few times before continuing on.

    Here are the results for the 8.062 driver with the OpenGL configuration at the default setting, and my processor at 2.2GHz:

    3dsmax-03 Weighted Geometric Mean = 26.12

    catia-01 Weighted Geometric Mean = 18.68

    ensight-01 Weighted Geometric Mean = 20.59

    light-07 Weighted Geometric Mean = 14.67

    maya-01 Weighted Geometric Mean = 27.79

    proe-03 Weighted Geometric Mean = 37.53

    sw-01 Weighted Geometric Mean = 18.77

    ugs-04 Weighted Geometric Mean = 9.954
     
  8. obsceneGFX

    obsceneGFX Member

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    Catalyst 5.4 results:

    3dsmax-03 Weighted Geometric Mean = 12.30

    catia-01 Weighted Geometric Mean = 9.534

    ensight-01 Weighted Geometric Mean = 15.56

    light-07 Weighted Geometric Mean = 9.417

    maya-01 Weighted Geometric Mean = 13.98

    proe-03 Weighted Geometric Mean = 9.139

    sw-01 Weighted Geometric Mean = 6.822

    ugs-04 Weighted Geometric Mean = 12.68
     
  9. obsceneGFX

    obsceneGFX Member

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    Your method worked, sebbe_sabb! I need to find out why exactly, because the only difference was unpacking all the dlls, and editing the install.ini to install with the setup.exe.

    Here are my results with the 8.083 driver as a V7100:

    3dsmax-03 Weighted Geometric Mean = 26.07

    catia-01 Weighted Geometric Mean = 18.19

    ensight-01 Weighted Geometric Mean = 23.51

    light-07 Weighted Geometric Mean = 17.26

    maya-01 Weighted Geometric Mean = 28.46

    proe-03 Weighted Geometric Mean = 37.15

    sw-01 Weighted Geometric Mean = 19.37

    ugs-04 Weighted Geometric Mean = 8.335


    I don't know why my ugs score is so low.
     
  10. sebbe_sabb

    sebbe_sabb Member

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    Good to hear. Test some real Apps and see if the performance is still there.

    My specviewperf-results was (amd 3.5GHz, 1Gb RAM, 8083-modifed firegl's)
    pro-e: 45.17
    ugs: 21.31
    catia: 22.76
    sw-01: 21.30

    compared to Catalyst 5.2 (at the time)
    pro-e: 14.44
    ugs: 14.32
    catia: 12.33
    sw-01: 11.47

    I also found that performance in Specview differs a lot when changing between certified driver-settings, ie pro/e, Catia, UGS. I have no clue why it is so.

    But in I-deas NX, running graphics benchmark on real geometry (time to rotate a semi-large assembly on screen a couple of turns)
    Modified 8083's:
    wireframe: 1.5 s
    shaded: 57 s

    regular catalysts:
    wireframe 2.23 s
    shaded: 8.1 s

    So for me, the firegl-mods is a no-go.
    /Sebbe_Sabb
     

  11. obsceneGFX

    obsceneGFX Member

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    I tried the unigraphics configuration setting and my Spec scores sank tremendously to single digits.

    The Spec website states that the benchmark is heavily focused on the graphics subsystem, but the results and commentary I've seen in web forums suggests that the CPU plays a huge role. Systems similar to mine but with a 6800GT achieve similar scores, so maybe the Athlon XP platform is a large bottleneck.

    As long as I have stability and compatibility I'm happy, but I'm still going to experiment for increased performance. :) I have yet to look at the registry settings.
     
  12. sebbe_sabb

    sebbe_sabb Member

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    Changing between certified driver pre-sets on nVidia cards does not affect performance as much as it does for the ATI-cards. When you look into the .xml-file which contain the driver presets, you see that a lot of numbers are changed. Switching between certain pre-sets need a windows restart.
    None of the settings made Ideas NX perform better however, and SpecViewPerf performed the best with default driver settings.

    Does anyone know what the driver presets actually do?

    /Sebbe_Sabb
     
  13. AlecRyben

    AlecRyben Ancient Guru

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    GPU:
    5x580 2x590 2x780Ti 1x970
    Switching between presets doesn't need windows restart in my case. I have yet to find a preset that demands that. I can immediately see the results of switching between Maya, Houdini, 3DSMax, Default and OpenGL games presets.
     
  14. sebbe_sabb

    sebbe_sabb Member

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    In may case, switching to UG Large Model or Ideas NX (as I remember it, I might be wrong) needed a restart. It also made specviewperf perform much worse.

    My 9800->glx2 performed very well (even though the x800xl outperforms it in CAD even using catalysts), and therefore I did not investigate if the 8083-drivers shows the same huge difference in performance under specviewperf on that card.

    For exampel, using Ideas NX preset on my x800xl->v7100:
    specviewperf proe-test 13.66 i.e on par with regular catalysts.

    In the atifglpf.xml-file, all entries which go into the registry during install are visible. I guess that if you switch between settings whish use similar or the same profileentry-values, no restart is needed.
    If you check it out, you´ll see that most entries are the same, only the name differs.
     
  15. AlecRyben

    AlecRyben Ancient Guru

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    GPU:
    5x580 2x590 2x780Ti 1x970
    Yep, you are right - when i try to switch to UG Large Model or Ideas NX it demands a restart... :(
     

  16. Andy2211

    Andy2211 Active Member

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    GPU:
    Point of View gf 6800
    hi,
    what must I do to get it running for X800XT AGP?

    Andy
     
  17. Andy2211

    Andy2211 Active Member

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    GPU:
    Point of View gf 6800
    i ever get an error: No video driver found...
     
  18. sebbe_sabb

    sebbe_sabb Member

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    AGP cards have different device-ids, therefore the:
    a) rivatuner script must be edited in a different way than for my x800xl pcie
    b) driver .inf-files must be edited in a different way, since agp x800xt does not use the same deviceid as x800xl

    I found the rivatuner additions for x800xl->v7100 in a post made by joejoe & digitalgod. Search the forum and see if there were any x800xt agp hacks.
    Those guys know how the "mask eax, and or"-stuff works, I do not.
     

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