Anyone dared to watch Dominion?

Discussion in 'The Guru's Pub' started by Dala1, Oct 16, 2018.

  1. Dala1

    Dala1 New Member

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    This amazing documentary is now available for free on Youtube.

    I could only make it to 19mins in, maybe someone else here dares more? :p
     
  2. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

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  3. CalculuS

    CalculuS Ancient Guru

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    My girlfriend is vegetarian and we had a lot of discussions about animal cruelty, veganism and these kind of documentaries.

    I don't know why but the conclusion I always draw is that I simply am unable to feel a note-worthy empathy to something or someone when it is not someone I hold dear or someone in my close field of relations. And no i'm not a psychopath.

    I think i'd last the whole documentary but I don't think I could hold my attention for 2 hours to in my opinion boring gorey scenes of random people hacking up animals.
     
  4. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

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    While just clicking through this already shows horrible pictures of many different animals, the question is, aren't those the worst possible examples?
    Sadly, monocultural huge plant fields which are sprayed with possibly harmful chemicals is also not the way.

    The sad and only way to get a hold of this issue is also the most simple: Half the number of humans on this planet. Problems solved.
     

  5. Dala1

    Dala1 New Member

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    Yeah I am already Vegan (because of environment and health reasons), and I consider myself a pretty hardened dude. But still I cannot bring myself to watch this. Very strange, I also love the occasional gore movies...

    I think that's a bit drastic. We are already getting along quite OK at 7.7billion people. But the environment is not, and one way to fix this is to reduce/quit consumption of animal products. By cutting meat and dairy out of your life, you can reduce your greenhouse gases by 70%! If we got enough people to switch, we'd already be well on our way of creating a sustainable lifecycle.
     
  6. TaskMaster

    TaskMaster Maha Guru

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    That just is not going to happen. Yeah sure, we are "OK" at 7.7billion depending on where you live, but majority of the world consumes dairy and meat.

    I have nothing against being vegan or people who are (some I find can be quite self righteous, not implying you are or are just following fad), but I don't see a large number of people all over the world anytime soon turning vegan. There is a lot of cards that play into this, education being one and culture being one other example.
     
  7. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

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    It's a simple mathematical way to look at it: half the people on earth, emissions due to meat production cut in half instantly. Pretty simple if you ask me, and yes a drastic cut, but not as drastic as cutting meat production emissions totally. And the "poorer" people on this planet don't eat as much meat, especially not meat produced the way the above documentary shows. That's only us citizens of industrialised countries. So going all vegan wouldn't even be necessary, just the industrial societies of Europe and North America would already do wonders. But meat consumation in countries like China and India is also booming...
    I doubt that having 8 billion people getting fed by monocultural crop farming would help us with the environment. Greenhouse gases, maybe, but such a mass of people to feed, that only leads to short sighted use of pesticides and the loss of natural habitats in favour of huge corn fields, palm oil farms, etc., which still don't solve any problems. We could cut greenhouse gases, that wouldn't mean that all's good suddenly. Also, while I do believe in climate change and humans adding to it's effect, how much of those 70% of gases saved for producing meat would mean for global emissions? If that number's not high enough, it's also not the end of the story and there remains more to do.
    It's a complicated problem that sadly requires lots of efforts in different fields, not just quitting on eating meat. That's what I meant.
     
  8. Dala1

    Dala1 New Member

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    Developing countries can "leapfrog", and copy our newer technologies. Take Africa for instance, they are skipping electricity generation with coal, and going straight for solar panels and natural gas. They also skipped landlines in favor of smartphones. What says they cannot leapfrog into more sustainable eating habits?

    I think you got it backwards, we would actually use LESS land when skipping the meat.
    [​IMG]

    I agree that it's a complicated problem, but one of the few things the individual can partake in.
     
  9. TaskMaster

    TaskMaster Maha Guru

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    Africa (the continent) has several countries which are in a political mess and almost all of those countries are heavy meat eaters. Sure for technology that can boost their industry and will be most cost effective in the future, they will leap onto it for the money.

    Vegans will always be a minority compared to overall population. Always.
     
  10. user1

    user1 Maha Guru

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    I watched the whole thing, what i will say is that for the most part, many of the barbarous practices displayed seem inefficient and lazy,
    Seems like a lack of thought and innovation has led to the particularly disturbing scenes shown imo.

    The video is informative, but i do dislike the intentional and subtle emotional manipulation through certain, musical cues, omissions and fringe views, particularly at the end.

    what is largely left out is the brutal reality of natural habitats, the death rates and infant mortality mentioned are normal in natural environments and are probably higher. Most of these animals also have predators, which are just as brutal or worse. Death by disease or starvation is normal, as it was for humans just a few centuries ago in the western world and is still true today in third world countries.

    The portrayal of hunters was also odd, it seemed to imply it is not natural for humans, when in fact humans have hunted for hundreds of thousands to perhaps millions of years (depends on where you draw the line in our lineage).

    I do think that people should know where their food comes from, there seems to be a major disconnect for people when it comes to nature and their food. So i still recommend watching it , though i wish there was a non-dramatized version that was just the raw footage and audio, with maybe some additional information spliced in.

    if anything this video shows how apathy and carelessness can lead to terribly run operations.

    It is also easy to forget that the people shown in the farms are probably normal , and have been desensitized by the repetitive process. Almost everyone is capable of being like that given the right environment.


    I think the documentary could have been better, maybe offered some insight as to how things could be improved, rather than "meat is bad mmkay" "animals are people too","farmers are nazis", doesn't really address the real problems associated with this type of farming very well. Seems its main goal is to guilt people through shock and awe, which I don't think sticks longterm.

    In order for the documentary's impact to be successful, you basically need everyone who watches the video to become a vegan.
    where as if you aim for the obvious flaws , all you need is a few people to improve things.

    The all or nothing attitude isn't particularly helpful for winning people over.

    I'd give it a 5.5/10 due to the lack of focus on the larger scale impact, and trying to manipulate people's emotions for seemingly "political" reasons. still worth watching for the educational aspect of it.

    wouldn't watch it if you have a weak stomach for blood though.
     
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  11. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

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    Is that 1/6th of an acre with "modern" agricultural methods, or "bio", "whole food", "natural", whatever you want to call it agricultural use? Asking out of curiosity.
     
  12. Dala1

    Dala1 New Member

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    -Veganism has grown 600% since 2014 in the US
    -In the UK, the number of people identifying as vegans has increased by 350%

    https://foodrevolution.org/blog/vegan-statistics-global/

    Things are starting to change quite drastically now. All it takes is for something to gain 25% mind-share, after that it explodes https://www.scientificamerican.com/...oes-a-minority-have-to-be-to-reshape-society/

    Props to you for making it through the whole thing. I will retry this tonight, hoping to last atleast 20 more mins this time :)

    I reccommend checking out 'What the Health' or 'Cowspiracy', for something less emotionally directed documentaries.

    I understood it as modern methods, acre facts fetched from here, http://www.cowspiracy.com/facts/
     
  13. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    This just bothers me. Why not say "the number of people who are vegetarian" instead?

    I can't put my finger on it specifically, but, it just seems weird in some small way. I tend to think of human beings as being just human beings, as their identifying mammalian characteristic.
     
  14. K.S.

    K.S. Ancient Guru

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    Had a self-chuckle ... a Foxconn documentary... "Stranglehold" or "Get Out" I think people become desensitized (talking about Dominion now) over time the more they are engulfed by whatever the environment is (ie a slaughterhouse etc) & whatever the definition could be such as "humane" far as treatment of animals etc becomes so blurred people lose lines of where they started or where they ended up. We definetely differentiate ourselves apart (many) from people animals etc - some rationalize if it's flat-out animal cruelty (and I'm broaching on the subject of actual violation of animal cruelty laws now) so there's that aspect of the human-psyche.

    It's hard to "sum-up". It's funny - I remember talking to a guy who used to work in a slaughterhouse once - he was talking about how over time it'd become more cruel (this is a man who used to kill cows with a massive hammer mind you) - apparently less "efficient" methods were used - corners were cut, cost-efficient means were put into place. Automated systems to replace workers at times or computerized hand-helds to constantly keep you "checking in" I mean... I got the gist that coming from someone who's job it was to slaughter whatever sense of empathy he had for the animals whom he had charge over (and I'm sure he had great deal of it - I don't think people don't) had a viewpoint of that industrial-complex (guy in his 60s now) over time brought in more manufacturer-oriented methods at the detriment of the livestock if that makes sense. That's one example'

    People are another element - and they'll vary; the mental state of the workers of-course. There's the element of if you're also for or against the entirety of eating to survive from the animals/beasts of the field/land at all. Some feel it's "murder" to kill them for food, or at all. That I won't touch. I'm merely writing this to just - speculate and go over in thought and what I remember over time. I suppose I see and get elements of both sides ... however wherever you go in life in whatever form of harvest or reaping for benefit you'll find some form of death and sorrow to some degree be it on a massive level, a medium scale, or a very finite amount. People will argue that those are truisms that hold throughout the various ecosystems of life.
     
  15. Dala1

    Dala1 New Member

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    We are all on this forum to learn about tech and compare products, performance, power consumption, cost etc. and make educated decisions based on facts. We are all geeky nerds in this way.

    Why not apply the same logical thinking to other aspects in life? As an engineer, this is what really got my mind thinking

    [​IMG]

    This is an energy pyramid, and it shows how only ≈ 10% of the energy “harvested” on a lower level is available on the next higher level (remaining 90% on each level is lost as “useless” heat energy).

    By skipping one or two steps of the pyramid, and consuming further down the line, efficiency increases. We then use less resources to go on with our daily lives.

    Thoughts?
     

  16. Lilith

    Lilith Member Guru

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    I have to say this conversation has stayed surprisingly civilized, which is nice to see. Usually these sorts of conversations devolve into ranting and people being abusive to each other or just devaluing the conversation by using the plants have feelings too etc.

    I am a vegetarian (not a vegan), and it is a really difficult emotional debate. I don't eat meat through choice, but I don't demand other people stop what they eat or try and pressure people to change there ways through guilt. However there's a subset of people in the Vegan community who are extremely "militant" in there views and view this as a war for peoples minds.

    Sadly that means they use a "you're either with us or against us" mentality and they go after vegetarians just as much if not more than "carnies" (yes they call you carnivores) as they see people like me as Hypocrites (we sill eat dairy, eggs etc).

    That being said not all Vegans are that way. It is a problem though, as far as there campaign of changing peoples way of thinking goes. It actually ends up being counter intuitive /productive (that's when you get people trolling them with comments about plants having feelings etc).

    For me I am just an animal lover. Ive always had a lot of animals in my life, and I personally could never hurt or maim or use them for meat UNLESS it was for my own survival or the animal was in extreme pain etc and I wanted to end there suffering as painlessly as I could. I'm not 100% against the consumption of animal products, what I am against is the sheer scale of animal products that we particularly in the west consume on a daily basis and modern farming practices (I'm not talking about Billy Bob and Thelma down the road with a small farm with 10 head of cattle and some chickens - I'm talking about corporate run farms where the farmer is kept in complete debt and coerced into shitty farming practices - it happens throughout the entire food chain these days).

    Personally it would be nice for people to actually take an interest again in where there food actually comes from, how its actually farmed, how animals in mass corporate farms are treated, how farmers are treated by those same corporate entities, and how many of us have become completely disconnected from the world around us and have lost respect for that which gives you and your family food.

    https://www.businessinsider.com.au/where-do-people-eat-the-most-meat-2015-9?r=US&IR=T
    Meat consumption per capita worldwide as per OECD.

    The cost to farmers in Australia, which has one of the highest suicide rates in the world for farmers in the world (due to crushing debt and isolation)
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5409553/
    This isn't just about being Vegan/Vegetarian, Omnivore whatever, this is about brutal corporate control, debt, mass farming practices etc destroying mens lives in the country (and Im not using this to say go Vegie, Im showing this is about Corporate farming practices, which creates bad conditions for everyone in the industry animal and human)

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4841092/
    PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) rates among slaughterhouse workers

    Last two are PubMED articles. Thats peer reviewed research papers. If your in college/university and studying medicine (any), you will be familiar with this.

    The industry needs to change.... Animals deserve better, Farmers deserve better, slaughterhouse workers deserve better. It's something we need to talk about instead of ignoring.
     
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  17. jbscotchman

    jbscotchman Ancient Guru

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    It's a tough subject to talk about. People love meat, but the way it's harvested is pretty damn cruel. I openly admit as a white man we are destroying this planet. One thing that really saddens me is that in 1900 there were less than 100 buffalo's here in North America, and before the white man came over there were millions! I live in northeast Oklahoma and glad to see the Indian Tribes bringing them back.
     

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