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Anti-Lag Thread

Discussion in 'Videocards - AMD Radeon Drivers Section' started by Eastcoasthandle, Jul 10, 2019.

  1. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    PC 2 at 1080p 120Hz, 4xAA (Which disables Super Sampling). Same settings as before. Around same frame rates too BTW. Played nurburgring in the rain with AI. It was a 2 cycle weather event (which has causes problems with me before). Overcast with rain 3-5 minutes into the race. Everything play similarly. Even though that is a unforgiving track in the rain. I had complete control of the car and had confidence that the car would keep to the race line in the corners. Even with AI behind me. Unlike before when I was only 70% sure.

    I do want to note that it maybe advantageous to make sure you have a profile setup for the game through Radeon's Global Settings and make sure that Anti-Lag is enabled for that game's profile.

    With Project Car2 it doesn't automatically detect it. However, when I play it then exit out of it then Auto Scan it detected PC2 without me manually needing to add it. Because PC2 has 2 .exe files one regular and won with AVX. It's best to let Radeon choose which of the 2 it wants to use.
    IMO.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2019
  2. Kulagin

    Kulagin Member

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    There is a way to demonstrate it. On a map like this:


    You load it and you use input lag tester like this:


    And you test it.
     
  3. Kulagin

    Kulagin Member

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    Except that you don't. They clearly show that their game is capped at 60 FPS(59 on the counter) at 8:20+ in the video:


    It doesn't matter what the guy says when they clearly show it in an in-game video LIVE at the same time as the guy is speaking, and video clearly shows their FPS is capped at exactly 60 FPS, and they claim that they have less lag on their AMD card with anti lag on compared to Nvidia and compared to when anti-lag is off on their card.

    Yes and they did it exactly the same way I explained in the post above. You assemble an AVR tester with an array of photoelements(photodiodes, photoresistors, photoresistors) and you test it.
    So you don't have to be GPU limited to be able to test it. You can cap your FPS, at let's say 20, and there should be like 20ms difference in tests.
    I did test it in CS:GO and there was no difference on any FPS:
    [​IMG]
    I used method guy's talking about at 9:46+(in the video above). Used Arduino and array of photoresistors on this map:


    Took 1000 measurements each time with randomized intervals between 0 and 50ms. Restarted driver each time I changed anything between tests.
    No, my tester isn't broken, you can clearly see a big difference at 77 FPS between VSync off and VSync on.

    The conclusion: Radeon Anti-lag doesn't work in CS:GO and on Dx9.

    Someone pointed out to me that it only works on Dx11. Today I'll maybe try to make a map in UE4 for these tests and test it on Dx11 respectively.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
  4. Alessio1989

    Alessio1989 Maha Guru

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    Direct3D 9 (and previous version) swap queue is not handled by DXGI, this is why probably it fails. The only exception is Direct3D 9Ex when optional flip swap effect is uesed instead of bitblt, where the swap queue is handled by DWM (even on fullscreen exclusive). Not sure what APIs uses CSGO...
     
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  5. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    CSGO uses D3D9 and D3d9Ex is an optional command line toggle with -d3d9ex

    d3d9ex is now the default since april.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
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  6. HiAlgoBoost

    HiAlgoBoost Member

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    To get some more info about Radeon Anti-Lag - press Ctrl-Alt-L once RAL has been enabled - this will show an OSD in the upper-left corner.
     
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  7. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    Thank you for providing that. Is this something we've missed? Because that's the 1st time I've seen that mentioned

    Edit:
    OK when I hit it once it shows a green dot in the upper left corner.
    When I hit it again it shows a double digit number. It's higher then frame rate cap of 60 in the menu. Could you elaborate a bit of what those two settings represent please?

    FYI, if anyone out there change the default settings of AL from Alt-L to ALT-B (for example) then you will need to press CTRL-ALT-B in order for it to work.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
  8. spajdrik

    spajdrik Ancient Guru

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    So as long DX9 game is running under D3D9Ex Anti-lag will work?
     
  9. HiAlgoBoost

    HiAlgoBoost Member

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    Yes - good catch about the Ctrl-Alt-B. Basically - whatever the shortcut that activates RAL - add a Ctrl to it to control the OSD. If the shortcut already includes a Ctrl - then no OSD for you :)

    Ok, so I call this number the “EqFPS”, or “Equivalent FPS”. The meaning is as following: assuming you are GPU bound, this number represents the framerate you would need to have w/o Anti-Lag to achieve the same latency as you do with Anti-Lag. A bit confusing, I know - but in the end it will make sense.

    You should you also run Fraps (I am guessing you are already doing that) to see both FPS and EqFPS next to each other. When RAL is enabled, if you press and hold the Right Ctrl key - you will effectively disable the RAL. In this case you should see the EqFPS go down and it should now match the FPS number (more or less).

    The EqFPS is a just a representation of driver lag. The formula is:
    EqFPS[Hz] = 2000 / DriverLag[ms]
    Or
    DriverLag[ms] = 2000 / EqFPS[Hz]

    In a normal (healthy) GPU-bound situation, without RAL and with 1 pre-rendered frame setting - the driver lag should equal exactly 2 frame times (on all platforms - AMD, Intel, NVidia, Android etc.). If you plug this into the above formula, you will see that EqFPS == FPS. RAL reduces the latency, therefore EqFPS increases - and the ratio gives you an idea of just how much lag you have now. EqFPS is not supposed to get larger than 2xFPS, but it can get close to it.

    Also note, that in the CPU-bound case, the latency is (in a healthy situation) less than 2 GPU frames, therefore in this case you should be seeing EqFPS > FPS even when Anti-Lag is disabled, and Anti-Lag should have no (significant) effect on this value.
     
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  10. HiAlgoBoost

    HiAlgoBoost Member

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    The green dot mode is just a minimal OSD to let you know that RAL is enabled.
     
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  11. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    Thank you kind sir. Not sure if you are able to say or not but I do wonder if you are from AMD with this level of technical know how.
    I'm grateful you posted that here none the less though.
    Here is a video so folks understand what you mean. As I too am just understanding how this works.





    EDIT:

    So I'm playing BO4 with the latency equivalent to someone with a more expense GPU producing 20-50+ more FPS? Impressive!
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
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  12. HiAlgoBoost

    HiAlgoBoost Member

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    Nice video :) I just wish you also had the Fraps up there in the upper-left corner for comparison.

    Yes, I am from AMD - I am the one who made RAL ;)

    Edit: sorry - you do have the FPS up there - I didn't see it before (I was using a phone to watch the video). But still - a Fraps number would be nice (EqFPS is in the same font as Frap's FPS...)
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
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  13. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    Neat!

    Ok, could you make it clear about RAL and AMD's use of Flip Queue Size? Some (sourced from Nvidia) believe all that was down was change FQS from 3 to 1. From watching the interview video and looking at the registry I don't get the impression that Flip Queue size has changed. But since you are hear...:D


    Edit:
    The FPS, etc and graph are from BlackOPS 4. You have to enable the graph through Config.ini file found in the player sub directory.
    show_performance_graph from 0 to 1


    Edit 2
    1440p is finally available for the video.
    It's taking youtube a lot longer then normal to make 2k resolutions available.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
  14. HiAlgoBoost

    HiAlgoBoost Member

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    So.... In a normal case the flip queue size should be 1. It is only ever increased if there are stuttering/performance problems. We've tested it a lot and (with all the recent driver enhancements) saw that we don't ever need a flip queue size greater than 1...

    About Flip queue size 0... There isn't actually a thing like that, but there is something similar. Let me explain:
    A flip-queue size of 1 tells the driver "don't start the CPU work on the next frame as long as there is a fully defined frame which has not been presented yet". Or, more precisely - "don't return from Present() as long as there is at least 1 unexecuted present command in-flight". The same kind of logic describes flip-queue size of 2,3 etc. - but obviously this doesn't work for "0".
    There is instead a mode which is can be considered a "flip-queue-size 0" in some sense - I call this mode a "hard sync" mode. Basically, the logic goes: "don't start the CPU work on the next frame as long as there is ANY unexecuted GPU command in the GPU queue", or, more precisely - "Don't return from Present() until the previous frame has fully rendered".

    In the first case (flip queue size 1) you get the optimal framerate (GPU is fully utilized), but sub-optimal latency (==2 frame times).
    In the second case (hard sync) you get the optimal (minimal) latency (just over 1 frame time), but sub-optimal framerate (GPU is not fully utilized)
    So Anti-Lag gives you both - the optimal framerate and the optimal (minimal) latency - the kind that you get in a CPU-bound case. So you can call RAL as having a flip-queue-size of 0.5 maybe?... Lol... :)
     
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  15. spajdrik

    spajdrik Ancient Guru

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    Eugene.ff: Welcome to the forum, it's nice to see AMD folks around here! and thanks for explanations.
     

  16. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    @HiAlgoBoost

    I understand now. Thanks for explaining that to us.:D And as Spakdrik already stated thanks for visiting us to explain Anti Lag.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
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  17. HiAlgoBoost

    HiAlgoBoost Member

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    BTW - is there any way to change my forum name (eugene.ff)? Or I can just delete the account and create a new one.....
     
  18. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    @Hilbert Hagedoorn
    Are you around tonight?
     
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  19. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    @vbetts or another moderator could help you out with a name change.
     
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  20. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    Updated Project Cars 2




    Edit:
    @HiAlgoBoost
    If possible, one day, to get RAL OSD to show as a line graph? One Line = FPS. 2nd Line = RAL. The gap would show the benefit of using RAL.
    --
    --
    I have to be honest. I am not sure of any correlation between RAL OSD and RTSS's OSD in the video. However, I thought I would show it anyway to see if any insight could be had from it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
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