Another question about RTSS and nvidia inspector

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce Drivers Section' started by Mahershala, May 13, 2018.

  1. Mahershala

    Mahershala New Member

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    So for some time i've used nvidia inspector with v2 frame limit set at 63 fps and my games were smooth with no tearing or stutter.

    Now recently i saw that nvidia inspector has big delay and i should use rtss, so i tried rtss with frame limiter capped at 59.989 (my display test is 60.000 hz) and i noticed maybe the game being a little more responsive, dont know if its placebo or not but now i have tearing. then i activated fast sync and it gave me stutters and game felt worse sometimes but eliminated tearing, changed frame limiter to more values but dosent really change anything.

    What am i doing wrong? is the new nvidia inspector now improved its delay? i was using an old build which had v1 and v2 among the frame rate limiter, now i see its separated.
     
  2. MrBonk

    MrBonk Ancient Guru

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    You couldn't possibly have not been seeing tearing before if you were not using Vysnc. It might be restricted to a specific portion of the screen that isn't as noticeable. But I doubt there was no tearing.

    You are getting stuttering with Fast Sync because FS is designed for best use with high framerates that are multiples of your refresh. The RTSS frame limiting trick really is meant for use with Vsync enabled.
     
  3. qwertimus

    qwertimus New Member

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    Quoting from a relevant thread...
    RTSS works brilliantly at eliminating stuttering (in certain games) when paired with VSync (from my experience). Frame limiter V2 acts more as a lightweight alternative to VSync (in that it attempts to sync with the monitor refresh rate), it isn't as robust but exhibits less frame delay (compared to VSync).

    Honestly, the reduced delay of RTSS compared to frame limiter V2 probably isn't worth screen tearing; it's already much better than VSync (relatively).

    If you don't want screen tearing, stick with your old setup (frame limiter V2) or invest in G-Sync/FreeSync/AdaptiveSync.
     
  4. Mahershala

    Mahershala New Member

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    wouldnt enabling vsync with rtss defeats the purpose of frame limiting to eliminate lag from vsync?

    ill stick to v2 then, tearing is very annoying
     

  5. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    Vsync and frame limiting are two completely different things.

    Enabling vsync does not c the frame rate. It bottlenecks the frame rate. The result is that the game renders more frames in advance, but they are held back in buffers. These buffers get full. Thus the "bottleneck" and the huge input lag penalties.

    Frame limiting does not sync to the monitor's refresh rate. There is a huge difference between FPS and Hz being equal and being synced. Being equal does not prevent tearing. Only being synced prevents tearing. (Two clocks for example count time at the same exact speed. However, if they're not synced, the "seconds" counter of each clock will change However, when using vsync, frame limiting prevents the buffering bottleneck from happening. The frame buffers stay empty, and thus the vsync input lag penalty is greatly reduced.

    The nvidia driver frame limiter (the one you configure through profile inspector), is not just a frame limiter. It also does frame timing manipulation with vsync OFF in order to keep the tear line away from the center of the screen. Tearing still happens, but it's usually near the bottom of the screen. If that works well for you, then there's no reason to not use it. It's a good solution. In my tests it seemed to actually have worse latency than RTSS + vsync, but it might have changed since then.

    However, if tearing is not acceptable for you, regardless of where the tear line is, then you need to enable vsync, and use RTSS instead to limit the frame rate 0.01FPS below refresh rate. This only works well if you actually know your real refresh rate. Use CRU to see the real refresh, and also run a test on refresh rate detector web sites. Many 60Hz monitors are actually 59.94Hz monitors, and thus you'd need to cap FPS to 59.93 in order for low-lag vsync to actually work well.

    All of this is described here:

    https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/the-truth-about-pre-rendering-0.365860/page-12#post-5380262

    Some people report that fast sync also works, but it never did for me. It always introduces stutter. Only use vsync when doing this. Force vsync it in the nvidia panel, disable vsync in the game settings. In my experience, this setup has lower latency than vsync OFF + nvidia limiter.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2018
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  6. Mahershala

    Mahershala New Member

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    ive been using v2 since almost 1 year and not noticed any tearing in any part of the screen in any games so far, it was your post that got me to try rtss and like i said in the first post i cant seem to make it work better than v2.

    and im talking about v2 in an old version of nvidia inspector, it has the v1 and v2 in the same category as the frames, this new version has separated tabs and there are two v2, one is force off and the other enable all

    leaving the fps cap unlocked results in coil whine from the gpu so limiting the frames or enabling vsync makes it go away, so vsync has some sort of frame limiting
     
  7. Chastity

    Chastity Maha Guru

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    @RealNC I was using Fast Sync for awhile on my laptop, and it was working great. Except it runs the GPU full throttle all day long, and it's coming to summer. :) So I just turned that off and did the 0.01fps setup with VSync, and it's working fine with the games I play + temps are much lower.

    Been playing SWTOR MMO a lot, and I get up to 180fps @ 4K with Fast Sync. Now I cap at 59.986 and the temps are down 11-12C.
     
  8. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    As I said, vsync without frame limiting results in bottlenecking, which still results in FPS being capped at the refresh rate, but this is a side effect of the bottlenecking.

    An analogy that can be used here is a road with cars. If there's a roadblock at the end that only allows 1 car to pass through every minute, but the cars are not speed-limited prior to reaching the roadblock, then they are going to pile up at the roadblock. When the pileup gets too big, no more cars are allowed to enter the road (through magic :p) until the pileup gets smaller by 1 car. Once that happens, one more car is allowed to enter the road. However, there's always a pileup at the roadblock, and all cars get delayed in the end because of it. That's vsync.

    If, however, you limit the speed of the cars such that only one car arrives at the roadblock every minute, then there is no pileup and no delays. The cars just pass though unhindered. That's a frame limiter.

    In both cases, only one car passes through the roadblock every minute. But the second method is much better in avoiding delays. (In our case, that means avoiding input lag.)
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2018
  9. Mahershala

    Mahershala New Member

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    is there a way i can eliminate tearing with rtss without fast sync as it gives me stutter? or if i use fast sync what else can i do to eliminate stutter?
     
  10. Dragondale13

    Dragondale13 Maha Guru

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    If using Fast Sync + Frame Limiter results in stutter, then your Cpu isn't getting enough juice.
     

  11. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    Yes. With vsync.
     
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  12. Mahershala

    Mahershala New Member

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    what do you mean? i have enough psu power.

    anyway ive tried the newest inspector and seems to have worse performance with either of v2 but old inspector is very smooth with v2
     
  13. Dragondale13

    Dragondale13 Maha Guru

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    Not questioning your PSU but rather "if" your cpu has enough voltage going through it....but nevermind that. :)
     
  14. fernake

    fernake Member Guru

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    Hello, what version of Nvidia Inspector do you use? Thanks.
     
  15. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    I think I remember a year ago (actually more like 2 years?) that enabling the nvidia frame limiter would force adaptive vsync or full vsync, even if you disabled vsync. This is probably what's going on here.
     

  16. Mahershala

    Mahershala New Member

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    i use the old 2.1.3.3, its the last one before they added the separate column for frame limit mode
     
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