Another look at HPET High Precision Event Timer

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce Drivers Section' started by Bukkake, Sep 18, 2012.

  1. Blanky

    Blanky Member

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    Sorry because in the end I got confused, what I wanted to comment is that since that changed I have never again felt the soft and fluid games, and I have never understood why it changed, whatever I do I have stuttering, I have tried all kinds of configurations and in the end I have given up because I have not found a way to solve it.(sorry my bad english).
     
  2. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

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    Sorry to hear that. Were those configurations powerful enough? I mean if you build weak or average rig you can get in such kind of situation - not having the margin for any changes in OS.
     
  3. Smough

    Smough Master Guru

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    Some documentation claims it was for some app developers so they could make them more compatible under Windows 10 and have less issues, it was around those lines. But apparently, at the core, it's the same 3 MHz timer, no idea, MS does weird stuff on Windows, they change something each update. If any, it doesn't affect games, 1803 had the "low" MHz timer and runs games like crap, whereas 1809 is stable with 10 MHz QPC. 1607 is very nice too with the "low timer", so that does not make a difference.
     
  4. Smough

    Smough Master Guru

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    Try 1607 LTSB, the "purest" version of Windows 10 before MS introduced all sort of weird changes and mostly, useless stuff, then test your games. BTW, are you on SSD or HDD?
     

  5. Smough

    Smough Master Guru

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    Timer resolution isn't a system timer. You simply switch it from Windows synthetic timer or platform timer aka your motherboard clock.
     
  6. Smough

    Smough Master Guru

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    Is not, in my case it does help me. Also, the timer resolution changes from different versions (the synthetic one). On 1607 to 1709, it its 1,0002 ms, 1803 and later, it changes to 0,9997 ms. If you can explain to me why MS changes this randomly, for no reason apparently, ON THE SAME O.S, but with updates, then tell me. Because it seems absurd to me. If you use useplatformtick, it becomes 1 ms on any version, which means something is scuffed with the synthetic timers.

    Why would I care what a program reports? I care how my games behave.
     
  7. Gomez Addams

    Gomez Addams Member Guru

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    I have not seen the frequency returned from QueryPerformanceCounter change from 10MHz in quite some time. That is, since processors got to around 300MHz. This is something I pay close attention to. In another dimension, I wrote this : https://www.codeproject.com/Tips/5254574/High-Resolution-Timing and I have seen nothing other than a 10MHz frequency, 100nS period timer in a while. According to my measurements, the overhead of calling the function is about 16nS.
     
  8. Smough

    Smough Master Guru

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    Would be nice if there is a way to change this in Windows to test stuff.
     
  9. Blanky

    Blanky Member

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    I have always thought that I could not use such an old version of Windows for my hardware, my specifications are a Ryzen 3700X, 2070 rtx super, 16gb Ram 3200Mhz, SSD 970 nvme, SSD 850 on a X470 msi gaming pro carbon.
    Correct me if I'm wrong but I think I understand that I need to use more modern versions of windows, before I had an i5 3570k with a 960gtx and I didn't suffer the stuttering that I suffer now with better hardware.
    Could I use the 1607 version? I remember it as smooth as butter
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2020
  10. Smough

    Smough Master Guru

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    Sadly, you only can use 1809 and above for newer Ryzen CPU's and of course, only Windows 10 1809 and newer can do RTX. 1803 and below don't have any RTX features, so yeah, in that regard you are kinda limited. But apparently, the new version, 2009, is as as good as older versions. All I hear from that are good comments and apparently, it's really good.
     

  11. janos666

    janos666 Maha Guru

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    I don't think any Zen* CPU really requires any certain versions of any OS. If anything, it's their chipset and only for the "advanced" functionalities (such as the new, hardware based power management).
    But for optimal results, all Zen* (starting from the the 1xxx series) needs Win10 1909 or later because that's when the scheduler started to treat the CCX design in a smarter way (with a few exceptions, like the new 5600 and 5800 SKUs which use a single chiplet and this new chiplet design has no quirks around the cache access anymore [unlike the older chiplet last year, or any other Zen* SKU with multiple chips/lets of any year of any zen-gen]).

    By the way, I tried this "holy grail" of OS 1607 some years ago when I had tons of issues with the actual Win10 version (I can't recall exactly but it prbably was 170x or 1803). But my conclusion was that with all updates applied (I integrated the last SSU/CU to the installer to begin with), it behaved virtually the same in terms of game smoothness (I tried several driver versions as well).
    Of course the next suggestion of my friend was "do NEVER update, STUPID!" (kill WU, downgrade the CPU microcode even, etc) but I don't consider that a viable route. So I just went back to the updated version and everything worked itself out after a while (probably thanks to both driver and OS updates, or whatever).

    I had zero issues with the 20xx versions after the initial upgrade errors (my laptop needed a few runs and some manual cleanup of old DRM files for the upgrade to happen).
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2020
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  12. Smough

    Smough Master Guru

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    I agree on that. I do have a dual boot with 1607 with zero updates. I actually updated it to a newer compilation and it went crazy at Latencymon, worse than my main O.S, 1809. So I unistalled those updates and only left the ones such as Netframework.

    Latency is just ok, not what was hyped, my 1809, with the same modifications rivals it easily. It kinda sucks because I was expecting lower numbers, it's not the "divine" perfection a lot of "tweakers" clamed it to be. It's odd. Still testing it, tbh, I am not sure about it. But I've noticed some odd issues that may make me delete it. I've seen more VRAM usage in games, while system RAM usage is indeed lower. Bizarre. My 1809 build has very balanced RAM and VRAM usage, seems these older, "miraculous" versions are only suitable for those e-sports games that only take like 2 gigs of VRAM or less. The Division 2 uses quite a bit more of RAM on 1809, yet runs much more stable. But some games do run better on 1607; DmC5 has way, way less stutters, if any and other games feel with less input lag, even so it's just a tiny bit of difference.
     
  13. Blanky

    Blanky Member

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    I think that's really my problem, you google and youtube and they tell you to make a lot of adjustments that in many cases are a placebo and we don't know the negative things that they get, I see a youtuber make adjustments and I think I'm going to do it because this person sure knows and in the end it's a Russian roulette that can go wrong or right.
    I've been reading in this forum for a long time and I learn a lot because here I see people who know, and I read a lot of Manuelg, mbk1969, Astyanax, Smough, Blindbison (sorry if I leave out any more because they are the ones I know the most) every time one of you writes a comment I'm going to read you with illusion because I know I'm reading people who really know and who are serious and are not looking for visits or propaganda to sell, it's a pride to be able to read you, thank you from the heart.
     
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  14. PanosXidis

    PanosXidis Member

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    Guys the best choice about that no apply on 20H2 nothing bcdedit commands!!you dont need something!!s
     
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  15. kelzthetraxer

    kelzthetraxer Member

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    Hi guys. I hope this won't be long.

    Anyways, I've been following this thread for long, because I have a problem I'm yet to fix. For nearly 2 years, I've been battling with some crappy stutters in my system, although the funny thing is they aren't as bad in gaming (they are still bothersome though), but they are more visible when using Windows or just a browser for example, the worst offender being Chrome. The problem is, I have some strange stutters when scrolling, again, like in Chrome for example, which do actually get MINIMIZED with useplatformtick YES, but they are still there (and it sucks, stuttering while scrolling hurts my eyes). Games also have this but to a less extent, but another problem is, when I use useplatformclock YES, I get quite a big input lag in games, although my mouse gets noticeably smoother (kinda makes sense at the same time, maybe it's a Vsync type of thing). Without that command, my input lag is lower, but it's stuttering more. I've tried multiple things like disable direct composition command for Chrome (it also improves things a bit), disabling hardware acceleration, different commands, HPET on and off, every CPU power saving feature OFF, making my GPU run at higher or maximum clock all the time, but to no avail. Another problem is, that when I first boot my PC up, it's smoother, then the more I game, the higher input lag becomes (another BIG problem) and the more stutters appear in Chrome AGAIN, BUT LESS if I use useplatformtick. I just cannot find a fix for this. I've tried Windows 8.1, every Windows 10 version and it's yet to work properly. Right now I'm on 1803 because it works the best in my case, but it's still such a mess I cannot understand what's going on. Also, I can't get my timer to be on a steady 0.5ms, not a single instruction helped, my timer is either at 0.9999ms without useplatformtick or .9765ms with that command on. Setting timer to 0.5ms is not possible, it's always either higher or lower, resulting in even more stutters. Even VIDEOS stutter from time to time when watching them in Chrome. My DPC latency seems quite high sometimes, it can get up to 500, but average is about 80-90 I think.

    Long story short, I have 3 problems:
    1. I have stutters which I can minimize, but NEVER remove FULLY. They affect even videos in Chrome, and the stuttering increases as I increase the video quality (no frame drops in Youtube, but stutters still happen, this is the weirdest thing I had in a long time).
    2. My input lag increases the more I game, no matter what setting I use. This is also big, as it becomes nearly unplayable after some time,. It's too bad in games like Tekken 7 or BF4 when I need the least input lag possible. And no, my CPU and GPU are not throttling. Please if you would help me with this at least would already be great enough. I want this input lag to be GONE, I will take stutters, but input lag I cannot get used to. It makes the game much more unplayable compared to stutters.
    3. Cannot get my timer to 0.5ms, but I think this isn't really that needed, although I have a feel it will actually remove ALL stutters.

    Things I've tried:
    1. Reinstalling Windows TONS of times.
    2. Trying different drivers
    3. Trying every command mentioned in this thread, the best (although still not good enough) being useplatformtick YES and HPET off in BIOS.
    4. Removing some components from my PC thinking that maybe PSU is choking, but still nothing.
    5. Overclocking and downclocking both CPU and GPU.
    6. Using standbycache cleaner. It doesn't fix neither stutters or input lag, unfortunately.
    7. Many more, would like your ideas.

    Specs:
    Philips 75HZ Freesync monitor (tried 60hz, still stutters)
    i7 4790k stock (undervolted to 1.175 as stock was too high, only helped with temps, everything else was the same)
    RX 580 8GB
    Asrock Z97M Pro4 motherboard
    Thermaltake Modular 530W 87% Efficiency PSU
    16GB of RAM on 2400 mhz (stock settings)
    Two 120GB SSDs + 240 HDD
    Windows 10 1803

    I'm literally tired. I was about to sell this PC because of how much of a pain in the ass it has been for the past couple of years. I want to mention that Windows 8.1 was actually the smoothest of the bunch, I remember I had the least stutters and lags on that system. The reason I'm posting here is because useplatformtick actually helped to some degree so maybe you guys can give me an idea or point me to something. Unfortunately still a long post but man I'm so done with this, I hope someone will notice me. I just want at least no input lag if I cant fix stutters. Useplatformtick increases the input lag (which is already bad enough even without the command), but at least it makes things smoother. Thanks in advance.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2020

  16. Smough

    Smough Master Guru

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    Start by doing a full format and install anything but 1803. I tried Windows 10 1803 and even if my PC didn't stutter, games were unstable in it having random fps drops at times, which didn't happen at 1809 or 1607 for example. I'd recommend you just to try the latest Windows version at the moment (2009). Also, you should fully update drivers, but even then, your problem seems related to a hardware issue rather than some wrong system configuration.

    And yes, Windows 10 1803 timer is broken for some people, I had the same issues with it being 0,9999 and never 1 ms with platformtick. Other versions had correct timer. Why are you even using this version? Almost no one uses it because it's very odd and scuffed, feels more like an experimental update before 1809 came and fixed a lot of problems.

    NEVER turn off HPET off in Bios. Who told you that was good? Windows uses HPET automatically when it needs it, so you don't need to force it on or off.

    Also, if you are gonna use the platformtick command, you must use TimerTool to keep the timer at 1ms all of the time or Windows will change it randomly, thus making things feel very weird.
     
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  17. kelzthetraxer

    kelzthetraxer Member

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    Thank you for your reply.

    The reason for why I use 1803 is because it's actually the best when it comes to both visual and regular glitches/bugs for me. Older and newer ones have some visual glitches that I personally can't take. This might be dumb, I agree, but I really care about how the OS looks as well. Also, as I said, I actually tried older versions and the newer ones (2009 was the best new one). BUT, they were all the same if not WORSE. 2009 was actually a little better in some games, but was a A LOT WORSE in others, like AC Odyssey (which my brother plays, so I don't want to destroy the performance for him). Windows and Chrome performance was also the same, if not worse too, stutters were too bad for my eyes, I couldn't handle all the hitching when scrolling pages (and as I mentioned, no workaround helped). So I just went back to 1803 and every game now actually runs stable, AC is smooth, so are the other games. That said, I never had an FPS drop issues in any of the OS versions. My issues are these two: input lag and random stuttering, which are not FPS related, they are more like Frametime (or whatever it's called) stutters. They appear no matter which Windows version, but again, 8.1 was the best, it's just that AMD ditched it so I'm forced to upgrade to Windows 10 because of the drivers.

    Now, I did NOT check the timer in any other version except 1803, but I STILL had stutters and input lag, so for me there was basically no reason to stay on them. Also, enabling HPET creates tons of stutters on my system, I don't know, I also wanted to leave it on but I was testing it all week and every time I'd turn HPET on, Chrome would go crazy and games didn't feel any better, so I left it off and now stutters are minimized.

    More and more do I think that it's actually my hardware. This sucks, but it seems like I either have to live with it or sell this PC, add some money and buy a new one (god I hope I won't get these type of problems again). Thanks for your reply again, I appreciate it.
     
  18. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

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  19. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

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    @kelzthetraxer

    Have you tried to decrease the number of background processes/services?

    Are there devices which share IRQ?
     
  20. Smough

    Smough Master Guru

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    Try Windows 10 1607 or 1709 if you haven't. Try resetting all BIOS settings to stock and test your system.

    Ok, as for HPET clarification: On in BIOS (aka stock BIOS settings or options), automatic in O.S, the command would be: bcdedit /deletevalue useplatformclock

    And leave it like that.
     
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