American cars... are they all like this?

Discussion in 'The Guru's Pub' started by The Chosen 1, Dec 15, 2009.

  1. nm+

    nm+ Don Cappuccino Staff Member

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    A. The European driving cycle is different than the US EPA driving cycle. The numbers are not comparable. The euro cycle results in lower number.
    B. The 2.5L I-5 in the Golf doesn't get 30mpg. It gets 30 mpg HWY, but 25 on the combined cycle, which is what is generally quoted unless they say HWY. The Golf has fairly poor fuel economy for the sector. The ford focus gets 28 combined. The cobalt gets 30mpg combined (all numbers for manuals), which is worth bragging about because it is the best non-hybrid fuel economy in the US.
    C. American drive bigger cars. We drive a lot more miles that Europeans do in longer trips. We're not alone in this, look at other big countries.
    Australia's best selling car is the Holden commodore.
    [​IMG]
    This is a big ass car. As big as a BMW 7-series. It was sold in the US as the Pontiac G8 and got 20 on the combined cycle.
    D. Diesels are not popular in the US. This is because diesels are quite dirty and pump out particulate emissions that can have more worrying consequences than CO(2). Most diesels (and many other cars in Europe, where cars without catalytic converters were sold well into the 90s) fail US emissions test spectacularly, hence they are not sold here. The only car diesels that pass US emissions are the urea injected models (VW Jetta TDI, BMW 335d, Mercedes E320 Bluetech) sold here in limited quantity. They are complex and expensive.
    There are other reasons for not using diesel. An amount of diesel's economy is contained in the fact that it contains more energy in it. This doesn't appear magically, it requires more oil to make a gallon of diesel than a gallon of gasoline. Diesel is cheap in europe because it is not taxed as heavily, it is often more expensive in the US than gasoline.
    It is also worth noting that refineries can't just produce diesel or gasoline. They are basically byproducts of each other's production. Anyone remember the fuel crunch a few years back? It hit Europe much worse than the US. This is because the crunch was in refinery capacity. All of Europe's diesel was spoken for in its fleet. All of the US's diesel was as well (due to out trucking fleet). However, Europe did not use as much gasoline as it produced, allowing us to import large amounts of gasoline from Europe, lowering US gasoline prices. There is something to be said for energy diversity.

    Finally, the US is a leader in alternative fueled vehicles. Bio-diesel is in wide distribution here for use by commercial fleets. California (particularly West
    Sacramento for some strange reason) is the center of fuel cell development. While these cars often have foreign branding, the technology was purchased from researchers in CA. Tesla, the most well known of electric car makers, is based in the South Bay. There are also a wide array of less well known companies making streetable electric cars. Ford's hybrid technology is better than Hondas and equal to Toyota's. The Chevy Volt is going to be a huge leap forward and knock Toyota on its ass.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2009
  2. malky

    malky Master Guru

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    She's a 1987 Gmc Vandura 2500 conversion van, although nowadays there called "executive coaches", 4 big comfortable captains chair and a bench in the back that folds out to almost a king size bed,.....jeez..I wish I had this thing when I was young & single. :banana:

    Mines not in here but similar.

    http://www.cardomain.com/MakeModel/GMC/Vandura
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2009
  3. Goliath182

    Goliath182 Master Guru

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    [​IMG]

    That would be the Volt which enters production in 2010 (I believe) as a 2011 (definite) model.

    http://www.chevrolet.com/pages/open/default/future/volt.do
     
  4. nm+

    nm+ Don Cappuccino Staff Member

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    Dumbass

    Ahahaha.
    Yes, Japanese reliability is pretty good (though my subaru needs a new goddamn engine), but European reliability? I want some of what you're smoking.
    VW/Audi:
    Home of a thousand Electrical glitches (Bosch parts). Not to mention engines that turn oil into a solid (long 1.8T). Flaky oil pumps (2.0T, 2.0TDI). DSG transmissions with a mind of their own (see recall).
    BMW:
    Subframes that tear (e36, e46)
    3.0 liter turbo that eats fuel pumps for lunch
    Sludge problems due to optimistic OCIs
    The entire cooling system.
    Anything made by Bosch.
    Higher end motors need a hilarious amount of maintenance.
    Subpar AWD
    Mercedes:
    Everything. Really, until 2 years ago, everything made since the early ninties was a piece of **** if it wasn't touched by AMG. Then they were fast money pits. The M class had reliability that made buying a loaded Range Rover look like the reliable choice.

    German cars have a lot of things going for them Reliability ain't one of them.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2009

  5. Goliath182

    Goliath182 Master Guru

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    If you want reliability get a Jeep I-6 (as far as engines) I've seen those things run without coolant for miles.
     
  6. nm+

    nm+ Don Cappuccino Staff Member

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    fourpointoh FTW

    "I've said it before, but the Jeep 4.0L engine is the toughest, least maintenance-demanding engine I have ever had personal experience with. Folks on the internet know that the Jeep 4.0L is durable, but they know little of its history.

    The original Jeep 4.0L inline-six was hewn from a solid block of granite by lightning bolts. Its cylinders were bored by the Imperial Winds and its rotating assembly was balanced by the Scales of Justice. The Ancient Egyptians used Jeep 4.0L engines to move the blocks which built the Pyramids, only switching to slave labor when it was found to be cheaper than the olive oil used to fuel the engines. Scientists have ranked the Jeep 4.0L engine as one of the strongest forces of nature, racking right up there with tectonic plate shifts for its low-end torque, and being surpassed by hurricanes only for its comparatively low redline. Mechanics have found imprints of fossilized dinosaur bones in block castings, and serial numbers in Roman numerals are a common sight. The design of the 4.0L's fuel injection system has been traced to the archives of Leonardo DaVinci, and early manuscripts of Shakespeare plays have been used as head gaskets for this engine (which, incidentally, explains the gaps in Shakespeare's collected works as well as the 4.0L's tendancy to leak oil). The engine's ancient roots also explain its ability to run on some very non-conventional fuels (original translations of the Rosetta Stone include evidence of Jeep 4.0L engines running on ox blood) as well as lubrications (during the Middle Ages, Jeep 4.0L crankcases were often filled with barley, with no detrimental effect on power output). Historians maintain that the fall of the Roman Empire hinged on their inability to design a superior engine, and had the Titanic been powered by a 4.0L Jeep engine, 1912 might have been a much happier year. Yes, had early-20th-century naval engineers had a touch more foresight, the Jeep 4.0L may have saved mankind from ever having to endure Leonardo DiCaprio and Celene Dion in the same sitting.

    The only weakness in this otherwise unstoppable force of nature? Emissions. Yes, the engine's design may have come from the hand of Zeus, and its exhaust note at full throttle may have reverberated along the rock formations of Arizona to forge the Grand Canyon, but by the year 2007 its crude emissions control (originally consisting of papyrus strips soaked in the tears of the young Tutankhaman) had become outmoded, and the legendary, nay Biblical force of the Jeep 4.0L was put to rest."


    -Wellington P Funk
     
  7. The Chosen 1

    The Chosen 1 Master Guru

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    I was aiming for the highway consumption in all the vehicles i showed. I don't know if they use different speeds or not. (here i think is 90km/h which is where most cars have better fuel efficiency).

    Diesels have had catalytic converters for a long time. And most recent have filters for the diesel particulates.

    Bio-diesel is a joke. If you get it from seeds and plants used for food it sometimes costs more then normal diesel, uses land that could be used for food and that food doesn't go to people. If you get it from used oils then that is something worth it.

    I like Tesla cars very much. They seem like great electrics cars but with a big price.

    The Chevrolet Volt sounds promising but it only gets 60km without charging although with the charging of the combustion engine it gets like 1000km which is impressive but still kind of dependable on gas.

    Haven't seen the technology used in hybrid Fords.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2009
  8. Joey

    Joey Ancient Guru

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    Bio-Diesel is an ecological disaster that eco nuts don't understand. Huge areas of rainforest in places like Madagascar are getting cut down to grow fields of palm trees.... so they can harvest the oil. RIDICULOUS!

    Yes, nm+, I agree, Mercedes suck. They are expensive to run, unreliable, and if you try and drive one of their vans for 200 miles a day (yes I live in a little country, not the US, and I drive a lot ;) ), they are extremely uncomfortable as well.
     
  9. nm+

    nm+ Don Cappuccino Staff Member

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    The euro and US cycles are extremely different even when comparing just HWY numbers. Different speeds. Different shift points. Differences on use of accessories like A/C. Different grades. They are incomparable.

    90+% of diesels still fail US emissions. They don't just need cats, they need urea injection.

    Re:bio-diesel: You're thinking of ethanol. Bio-diesel comes from many sources, and even if straight grown it makes sense.

    Tesla is releasing a cheaper car shortly.

    The whole idea of the volt is that 90% of people almost never drive more than 40mi per day. This will make the use of gasoline in these cars a fairly rare event. The ICE in the car allows it to get beyond the range problems of pure electrics. It is pretty sweet when you think about it. It is also basically an electric car with an ICE hooked up to charge it. This is pretty cool as it will be a somewhat reasonably priced (under $40k) electric car and should be a great proof of concept.

    Ford's hybrid system is really great. The fusion hybrid (think mondeo sized) has by far the best fuel economy in the class beating out they Toyota Camry hybrid it competes with (as well as the TDI Golf and Jetta)
     
  10. PR-0927

    PR-0927 Ancient Guru

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    Don't get me wrong. German cars are garbage with reliability. BMWs have come a long way, and are somewhere between American and Japanese cars.

    And Fords still do not compare in reliability to Japanese cars. They've just breached the "above average" threshold. They're better than all the other American cars, however.

    - PR-0927
     

  11. zinjin

    zinjin Master Guru

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    Honestly why do y'all care what another person drives in another country?
     
  12. dukedave5200

    dukedave5200 Ancient Guru

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    A gallon in the US is smaller than a gallon using the Imperial system of measurement. This is the conversion you have to make. Not simply from gallons to l/100km

    1 US gallon = 3.78541178 liters
    1 Imperial gallon = 4.54609188 liters

    Does that help (even though I already posted it?)

    How about this. A car that gets 30mpg in the US gets 36mpg in countries that use the Imperial gallon. It's the same exact car, but when it's advertised in the US they say it's 30mpg, if it's advertised in say the UK it's 36mpg.

    So you ask in your original post does anyone think 30mpg is good. You're basing your question (as it would seem) as if that car got 30mpg using your system and not the US measurement.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2009
  13. Goliath182

    Goliath182 Master Guru

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    Haha thats awesome! Totally the truth.
     
  14. hawkeyefan

    hawkeyefan Maha Guru

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    That's at least the second time nm+ has posted that, and it could not be more true. I've had three Jeeps with the 4.0L I6 and the first went 385k miles before I sold it to a friend, who then drove it for two more years before getting drunk and breaking the front axle on a curb. It leaked oil out of the main seal like crazy at that point, but didn't burn a drop from what I could tell.

    My favorite part about that engine is that, even brand spanking new, they have terrible valve lifter noise.
     
  15. duude

    duude Active Member

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    Here in india most people own cars ranging from 1.2l to 1.6l.(cars lower then 1.2l get tax benifit so most manufactures prefer lower displacement cars.)
    My opel has a 1.4l 86bhp enginge which does 53 mpg
    My swift with a 1.3l 87bh engine doing 55mpg
    I am happy as i can easily cruise at 120KMPH on the highway seating 5 in both vehicles.
     

  16. Goliath182

    Goliath182 Master Guru

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    Too bad the 0-60 is like what 12 seconds?
     
  17. PR-0927

    PR-0927 Ancient Guru

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    Doesn't matter, the traffic won't let you go anywhere. Maybe for the span of five minutes, but the combination of flipping retarded driving (found throughout the entire nation) and the overcrowded roads (with cows, people, tractors, bikes, cars, trucks, rickshaws, camels, and carts) make driving a nightmare in India. And all the cars are so flimsy there!

    *Shudders.*

    That's one thing actually - cars sold in America have to meet some tougher safety standards - many times this causes cars to be larger/heavier, which, of course, decreases mileage.

    - PR-0927
     
  18. duude

    duude Active Member

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    It goes to 0-100kmph in 12 secs
     
  19. duude

    duude Active Member

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    Point taken but same is the case in europe and they have decently fuel efficient cars
     
  20. vbetts

    vbetts Don Vincenzo Staff Member

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    Also too bad that most high end cars with power like 'vetts, or stings won't be used most of the time over 90.

    Me personally, I like all the fast sporty cars, but I would never own one personally really if it didn't have decent gas mileage. I'll never use a 400hp Sports car for what it was made for. So why waste the power and the money and the gas just so I can hit 60 in 4 seconds? After thinking about really, I'd much prefer my car be safer and more efficient then fast.
     

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