AMDATI meaning compromising quality/visuals?

Discussion in 'Videocards - AMD Radeon' started by warlord, May 19, 2018.

  1. warlord

    warlord Maha Guru

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    Hello gurus. Sadly 10 whole years now, AMDATI has always been lower tier than Nvidia in almost everything including mostly tessellation performance or else calculating geometry instances.

    I have encountered the same situation since HD5000 series, WEAK tessellation in comparison with Nvidia since GTX 400 series. Why oh why AMDATI cannot provide a proper solution in 2018?

    To have the ultimate smoothness in intense gaming the ultimate choice is forcing tessellation at 16x factor. Is this how premium gaming from the red side meant to be? I await opinions, if you do not provide me legit reasons I am going to abandon red ship as other friends of mine already did.
     
  2. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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    For tessellation I was actually curious about that and after a few searches what I found is that tessellation was done in a less efficient manner pre-Polaris GPU architecture so it's not as fast on older hardware compared to 400/500 and Vega where this is handled via L3 and caching. I'll have to find the post about this again but the recommended was 8 - 16x tessellation on these older cards via AMD's settings and then Polaris and newer could do 32 or full 64x although outside of wireframe I don't think users would be able to spot much of a difference until you drop to 8x or lower.
    (Likely varies a bit from game to game how demanding this is and how much they use tessellation for.)

    Far Cry 5 is also a interesting title, I noticed it's pretty pixelated for distant terrain which really stands out when using scopes but it could also be Ubisoft doing some "optimizing" of the game as of the 1.5 update and this is what changed how this looks but it could just as well be something in the newer AMD drivers too.

    For other differences NVIDIA has traditionally had faster geometry handling though once again Polaris and Vega now have more effective ways to discard or cull geometry that isn't visible so this evens things out a little bit but it's not as fast as it is on NVIDIA's GPU's from how I understood it.
    (AMD excels in compute and shader works which some newer games are taking more advantage of but there's still a ton of geometry and texture data to process too and then the increased CPU overhead under DX11 and really problematic Windows OpenGL performance.)


    EDIT: And for raw performance the Pascal NVIDIA GPU's also clock higher and can overclock higher still which gives a performance lead even if AMD has tried closing in but with the disadvantage of running at a pretty hefty stock voltage and higher power draw to ensure each GPU can handle the set clock speeds without issue.
    (Though for overclocking it is possible to balance this down to pretty efficient levels and depending on GPU quality you can even retain or keep a slight overclock too while dropping voltage with 100 - 150mv or more for Vega and a fair amount for Polaris and Fury too.)

    EDIT: But with the pricing of even Polaris GPU's upgrading is problematic at the moment even if they have good hardware improvements, prices are fluctuating though so it is possible for these to come down in price but often not quite down to their initial launch price levels.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2018
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  3. z8373767

    z8373767 Member Guru

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    I don't like when GPU Power is wasted for "extra things". For example Water and some concrete constructs in Crysis 2 or Volumetric Light in Fallout 4, when maxed out bring down R9 290X perf compared to GTX 780. Set GodRays a bit lower and then we have a tie. Any big diffrents?
    https://images.nvidia.com/geforce-c...interactive-comparison-004-ultra-vs-high.html
    Show me where.
    That's why i really appreciate when GeForce.com provided image comparison for every graphics settings.
    I can choose best visual quality and best performance at all.
     
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  4. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    And then you compare the results of forced x16 and full and you need to look closely to even notice the difference. :p

    There's other things to be disappointed about with AMD, mainly driver settings and their VRR implementation. But IMO, tesselation is not one of them.
     
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  5. OnnA

    OnnA Ancient Guru

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    I can only tell one thing:

    If you could see what i've seen in my eyes in terms of #ATI Radeon Visual Quality Gaming w/Freesync ON 10Bit + Reshade/SweetFX or RP
    AC:O -> Amazing looks on my custom settings Low AA in Game)
    (+ reshade/ AA
    #define USE_SMAA 1
    #define SMAA_THRESHOLD 0.09
    #define SMAA_DEPTH_THRESHOLD 0.001
    #define SMAA_MAX_SEARCH_STEPS 65
    #define SMAA_MAX_SEARCH_STEPS_DIAG 8
    #define SMAA_CORNER_ROUNDING 0)

    Next:
    FC5 -> Works & looks amazing also
    DeusEx MkD -> Works & looks amazing also
    BF1 & SW BF2 -> Works & looks amazing also
    Forza 3/7 + NFS:p -> Works & looks amazing also

    Yes those are Very Heavy Games...

    I just can't complain really (~340€ 1440p Gaming ;) :eek::rolleyes::p )
    Yes not even Maxed -> 1012/560 at 1.181v -10%POW
    Waiting with my stable OC for BF:V :D (if needed i can go 1120/560 1.218v +12%POW)
     
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  6. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Get new CPU, that's only advice you need to change your view on your GPU.
     
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  7. BuildeR2

    BuildeR2 Ancient Guru

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    Indeed, this could be the case. I had an absolute blast back when I had my i5 4690k/R9 290X combo.
     
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  8. warlord

    warlord Maha Guru

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    CPU is absolutely irrelevant on that topic and with the same settings, only changing tessellation gives a huge smoothness boost. It is GPU's fault. All the net brags about it. And as I see all benchmarks, I made calculations, still all AMD cards suffer from it, only GCN 4th gen or later suffers less, up to Fury, it is pure trash. Do not forget for example witcher 3 was a problem because of tessellation and not hairworks, the same goes for ROTTR, only with tessellation tweaking you get absolute butter experience in real maximum settings. I made tons of tests, the system is not at fault, less fps does not mean drops/stutter. Stutter and drops are due to GPUs failure. Crashes and BSODs are due to systems bad health and oc'ing. At least AMD should offer better optimized situation for each game out there, not global degrade.
     
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  9. Noisiv

    Noisiv Ancient Guru

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    Witcher 3 is... I think the only game which stutters on my rig. ROTTR, I never played

    I know that Tesselation is not my GPU strongest point , so I slide it down without even looking.
     
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  10. kondziowy

    kondziowy Member

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    I bet half of Geforce users would be glad to slide tess slider to minimum for performance boost. In gameworks games that is. Because in other games tess does nothing and is useless.
     
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  11. z8373767

    z8373767 Member Guru

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    Especially Kepler users. It's sad when GTX 680/770, which was a great rival for HD 7970/R9 280X, lose in some modern titles, and GTX 780Ti when was a real MVP years ago, but sometimes give a break versus GTX 970 today.

    Back to topic.
    AMD improving they product very slowly, that's true, but i really like ReLive stuff, Radeon Overlay etc.
    Freesync especially. Tearing-less gaming, even on 30FPS games with broken Vsync when Onna mention about increasing FS Range. I have 29-144Hz. Im looking on you The Force Unleashed 2.
    Don't forget about game devs. They still do games on old DX11 api. Nvidia mastered DX11, that's fact, but we need something modern. DirectX12 is three years old now. How many games we have on it? Which works of course.
    For me it's Hitman, Deus Ex MD and as guest BF1, when DICE forget about 4 thread CPU in Expansion Packs, but vanilla map is unplayable in DX12 mode. Three games. Wow.
    What about Vulcan? Two titles. DOOM (great, great, great) and Wolfenstein: The New Colossus (just ok).
     
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  12. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    And that's where you are wrong. Your CPU pulls less FPS, and it causes stutter. my i5-2500K @ 4.5GHz did same.
    I looked at OSD and see good fps, but on screen I saw stutter fest.

    Fast forward to new system with old GPU and FPS is not that much better. But stutter is nowhere to be found.
    You see those benchmark charts with Pentium and i3 CPUs doing just fine... but in real world those numbers on chart matter as much as number on my OSD did.
    "Just a number if gaming experience sucks."

    If you have friend with new CPU, ask him to test few games where you have issue with your GPU. You'll see the difference.
     
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  13. OnnA

    OnnA Ancient Guru

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    Especially for you Warlord :D

    Keep in in the Red ATI Team with FreeSync2 HDR :cool: and invest into something #Better in near future (if you can) [Vega 12nm? or maby go for budged with some Fury-X/Nitro?]
    IMO You will have satisfaction... (No i dont think that ATI is uder-par, it has less FPS but it's not worse)

    [​IMG]

    Have a great day!

    Comparing - MSRP 499USD & MSRP 699USD ;)

    (finally mining creaze is over)
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2018
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  14. Noisiv

    Noisiv Ancient Guru

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    0.0 Congrats on the new hardware :D :D
    4.2 GHz, AIO, 32GB C14. Very nice!
    Enjoy ;)
     
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  15. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    You need a frametime graph for that, not FPS display. You can enable it in Afterburner.
     
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  16. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    Max tessellation is overrated. Seriously, you're worrying over nothing. Just play the game instead of going over each pixel with a magnifying glass.
     
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  17. LocoDiceGR

    LocoDiceGR Maha Guru

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    Cant agree more with you dude.

    +1000! Well said.;);)
     
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  18. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    I do agree, point was that times when AMD X4 860K delivered good gaming are gone.

    For example, today I played mentioned Wither 3 for a while. Maximum settings available, no tweaking except AA being 4x instead of 8x. 58~76fps, mostly around 65. And smooth as butter.
    Fury X is not magically more powerful than 390X. Difference can be easily compensated with few visually minor settings tuned down.

    Warlord's bad experience is coming from his CPU.

    @warlord : Did you check your "W10 Game DVR" settings? Maybe part of your problem is automated replay recording.
     
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  19. OnnA

    OnnA Ancient Guru

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    IMO, ZEN 2600/2700 will solve all your problems bratan' :cool:
     
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  20. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

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    Athlon X4 860K is simply not fast enough.... The CPU has to be able to keep the GPU fed with data, which isn't happening. An entry-level processor should never be paired with a "high-end" graphics card.
     
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