AMD: ZEN3 architecture finished – expects 15% faster IPC

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Nov 22, 2019.

  1. HybOj

    HybOj Member Guru

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    With the adoption rate of new AMD CPUs - they will... sooner than later.
     
  2. Kaotik

    Kaotik Member Guru

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    They didn't, they said Zen2 at 15% was more than typical evolutionary step (due getting things left on cutting board from original Zen plans). They didn't comment how much more performance Zen3 would bring, just that it's what one would expect from completely new architecture, what ever they think that may be.
     
  3. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    Yeah

    I also think this "completely new architecture" thing people keep saying and AMD keeps like throwing around is kind of nonsense. It's not a completely new architecture. Zen 1 wasn't even a completely new architecture - a ton of stuff was pulled in from Bulldozer. I feel like the tech community needs to create some kind of benchmark on how much a design needs to change to be considered a "new architecture".
     
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  4. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    Zen is a significant departure from the BD/PD arch, its much much closer to the Jaguar APU.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     

  5. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

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    So 4000 series. Guess I'll switch from intel 4000 :D


    I just want better latency.. guess it will be doable ~50us. And faster clocks. Stable 4.6 -4.7ghz across 8 cores.

    I will get 8core 16thread. Dont need more.


    The best thing would be, it would be ddr5 compatible, like some intel mobos that worked with ddr3&ddr4.


    That said, I can't wait.
     
  6. JamesSneed

    JamesSneed Master Guru

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    @Hilbert Hagedoorn How did you get from that statement they meant Zen3 would get 15% IPC? They certainly were talking about Zen2 and mentioned Zen3 would have a similar performance uplift but didn't mention IPC. I highly suspect a good deal of performance will be frequency from a much more mature process from TSMC. I expect 5-10% IPC with 10% clock increase in base and boost clocks.
     
  7. SniperX

    SniperX Member Guru

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    AMD twisting the knife...
     
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  8. angelgraves13

    angelgraves13 Ancient Guru

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    Eliminate the latency in the CCX, bump the clocks, and you're looking at gaming performance that beats Intel's "Lake" architecture. Zen 3 isn't even going to be a "big" update. Zen 4 will be on PCI-Express 5 and DDR5. No other details are known about Zen 4, except maybe that it will have 3 or 4 threads per core.
     
  9. waltc3

    waltc3 Maha Guru

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    Anyone who has used Zen/+ and Zen 2 on a regular basis knows exactly why AMD says Zen2 is a new architecture--it behaves fundamentally different--difference between an R5 1600 and a R5 3600X is night and day, and certainly the major differences are not limited to stock clocks. Zen 3 will make some major changes, imo, improvements on Zen 2 IPC of ~15% does not sound far fetched at all, and may turn out to be conservative--the difference in IPC in toto between Zen/+ and Zen 2 was more closely on the order of 30% in many cases, when all factors including cache and clocks are tallied up. I very much like it that AMD is being more conservative in its estimates these days--makes for nice surprises when the products finally ship.
     
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  10. Reddoguk

    Reddoguk Ancient Guru

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    Even if it is only 10% that'll be enough i feel to overtake Intel as the number one CPUs for gaming.

    Intel is still the leader in gaming by only a few percentage now, so any IPC increase by AMD will be a win win for AMD and us.

    I think it'll still be AM4 socket but a new chipset may be released 670X maybe.
     

  11. LEEc337

    LEEc337 Active Member

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    If it's the same socket would previous gen Ryzen work with ddr5 and wouldn't that increase bandwidth for the bandwidth sensitive early Ryzens or is the cpu limited to ddr4 in hardware
     
  12. angelgraves13

    angelgraves13 Ancient Guru

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    Zen 4 will be a new socket, probably AM5. Zen 3 will of course launch with a new chipset and motherboard.

    DDR5 will arrive with Zen 4 in 2021 along with PCI-Express 5.0 and it’ll likely be 5nm from TSMC. I guess 5 is the magic number for 2021.

    EDIT: Almost forgot the most important detail most have overlooked. Memory support. If Infinity Fabric is again faster than Zen 2, and maybe always 1:1 up to 4600... That'll have a big impact for performance. Right now with Zen 2...anything over 3733 drops the Infinity Fabric to 2:1.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2019
  13. robintson

    robintson Master Guru

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    Lets hope they will lower the Latency and fix Core Scheduling performance loss which is present in Zen 2. CCX , because Windows can't use the cores to their max. potential with Zen 2 CPU's. Agree that big part of the improvements in IPC will come from the cache memory shared by all cores in Zen 3 for sure.
    First we fix the CCX design errors from Zen 2 in Zen 3 ,after we speak about the 15 % improvements in IPC in Zen 3, clear win win situation
     
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  14. heffeque

    heffeque Ancient Guru

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    I just wish they'd build a decent CPU/APU for laptops that doesn't hog battery like current ones do.

    Intel basically has 100% of the laptop market (which is not a small market at all) and even nowadays it's still difficult to recommend anything with an AMD CPU/APU.

    As for their desktop CPUs, I'm impressed by Zen 2/3... but if I had to buy anything, I'd probably wait for Zen 4, which will have 3 or 4 threads per core, and will probably bring DDR5 (couldn't care less about PCI-Express 5.0 though). If Zen 3 delivers, surely Zen 4 will be a complete beast.
     
  15. HeavyHemi

    HeavyHemi Ancient Guru

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    There's always going to be a latency penalty communicating BEWTWEEN CCX's. This is an inherent limitation of the design. You can some what mitigate via the evils such as branch prediction, you will not eliminate it.
     

  16. robintson

    robintson Master Guru

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    AMD has a year or two , before Intel closes the performance gap, therefore now is time for AMD to come up every year with the new CPU architecture and new CPU design. Intel has 14 nm matured vs 7 nm new process technology that AMD has, it is more than obvious who is a winner here for me
     
  17. Mpampis

    Mpampis Active Member

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    I wish a Zen3 8core/16thread CPU would be compatible with my X370 motherboard.
    Then again, if not, Zen 3 would probably mean that I'd be able to get my hands on a 3700X on a really good price sometime in the future.
    That would bring a nice performance boost over my 1700.
     
  18. Aura89

    Aura89 Ancient Guru

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    delete
     
  19. TheDeeGee

    TheDeeGee Ancient Guru

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    Might as well hold on to my 4770K for a little longer then.
     
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  20. angelgraves13

    angelgraves13 Ancient Guru

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    I'm holding on to my 5960X a little longer so I can get the Ryzen 4950X lol which will either be 16 cores or maybe even 20, but I doubt it. I'm basically looking to double my core count so I can have additional cores/threads for background tasks and very competitive gaming performance, though it will be at 4K, so it'll likely even out.

    I'm still very impressed by the 3950X, but I don't have a real "need" for it yet. 8 cores and 16 threads is enough to game today, but it falls short in content creation.
     

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