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AMD X590 Chipset Pops Up Again - 24 Extra Full PCIe 4.0 lanes?

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Jun 16, 2019.

  1. Hilbert Hagedoorn

    Hilbert Hagedoorn Don Vito Corleone Staff Member

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  2. Evildead666

    Evildead666 Maha Guru

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    Maybe its a TDP choice ?
    They could do a WS board, but just 4 extra PCIe lanes is weak, and X570 are going to be expensive anyway.

    An x8 link to the chipset ? (get rid of any bottlenecks, perceived or otherwise).
     
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  3. DmitryKo

    DmitryKo Master Guru

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    There would be little benefit from the extra 8 PCIe lanes in the PCH, as all these 24 lanes would map to the same 4-lane CPU uplink.

    Now if they could reconfigure the CPU NVMe x4 link to double as the downlink lanes to the chipset...
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
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  4. Evildead666

    Evildead666 Maha Guru

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    Then again, it would basically have one M2 slot less than X570, but have a x8 link to the chipset..not sure if worthy of X590.
    There must be more to this, maybe even E-ATX boards.

    edit : Microsemi has a storage PCIe 4.0 switch available since last year, and PLDA might have one. Broadcom could have one too (PLX chips).
     

  5. HWgeek

    HWgeek Master Guru

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    Can they make 8 Dimms memory board? or maybe 4ch 8 Dimms board?
    Since now they are at X299 league with 3900X/3950X and it's need more memory dimms slots or quad Chanel memory.
    *TR X599 will be another league, no cannibalization.
     
  6. Evildead666

    Evildead666 Maha Guru

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    The problem is the number of pins for the socket.
    TR is so big, mainly due to the extra memory channels.

    AM4 and AM5 will be dual channel.
    Each memory leap DDR3/4/5 is about twice as fast as the last now, with a bit of regression, but doable
    much cheaper than finding an extra 288 pins, per channel, for DDR4 ;)

    edit : Also, i don't think its possible to do more than 2 Dimms per channel. So we are stuck at 4 Dimms, which is still quite good. 128GB max i think, with 32GB dimms.
     
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  7. er557

    er557 Master Guru

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    I see I'm still future proof here with my dual haswell system, got 80 pcie 3.0 lanes, both gpus get x16, many expansion cards, 10x sata 6gbps + 4x sata marvell card, and an quad nvme m.2 card with full bandwidth, and have yet free lanes to spare. such are the spoils of workstation boards. Next on my list is not upgrades, but rather get an identical motherboard to keep for any case... As the cpus are unlikely to die anytime soon.
     
  8. asturur

    asturur Master Guru

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    Yes for a workstation you are probably enough future proof.

    For gaming you are probably in the 60fps range for as long as you want.

    I recently upgrade from a i7 990x ( first gen ) to a ryzen 2700x and i was like 30% faster after 10 years.
     
  9. DmitryKo

    DmitryKo Master Guru

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    The X590 chipset is supposed to have additional PCIe lanes, so the primary M.2 slot would be routed through these lanes.

    On the X570 half of the PCIe lanes are freely reconfigurable as SATA or PCIe on each individual lane, similarily to the CPU on-die x4 link (tough the latter is somewhat less capable with only 2 SATA lanes).
    I'd expect X590 would retain such capability for some of its additional x4 PCIe PHY blocks.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
  10. Evildead666

    Evildead666 Maha Guru

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    I was referring to the possibility of a x8 link to the chipset.
    In that case, the cpu would have a x16 to the gpu, and the x8 to the chipset, and lose the m2 slot from the cpu (taken by the chipset).
    From that, the extra x4 on the chipset, would be used for the x8 link to the cpu, so it would immediately negate any increase on the chipset side.
    So, overall, you would have a x8 link between the cpu and chipset, but lose a M2 slot (compared to X570).
    However, if you add a PLX PCIe 4.0 switch on the chipset x16 lanes in the mix, it becomes interesting.
     

  11. DmitryKo

    DmitryKo Master Guru

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    X570 marketing materials count up to 24 lanes on the CPU side (x16 graphics, x4 storage and x4 downlink) and up to 16 lanes in the PCH (reconfigurable at x16, x8, x4, x1 granularity).

    The news above imply 8 additional PCIe lanes in the X590 PCH for a total of 24, so that would be in comparison to the 16 peripheral lanes on the X570, excluding the chipset uplink lanes which are counted on the CPU side.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
  12. Evildead666

    Evildead666 Maha Guru

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    The news only implies an extra x4 lanes. 24 in total, and x4 for the uplink, so 20 left. 4 more than the X570 which has 16

    edit : also, the chipset lanes are to be counted on both sides, chipset and cpu. Its the link between them. So they each lose x4 for their link.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
  13. illrigger

    illrigger Member Guru

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    This. If you move the x4 from the m.2 slot on the CPU to the bus link, you have to lose another x4 on the chipset side, too. Of course, x590 would be a beefier chipset to account for this, but x570's already got a constant draw of 11W, and loaded draw of 15W. Nobody wants to put a CPU-sized HSF on their chipsets, so going denser on that side of things might require a die shrink (and the corresponding cost increase, since their 7nm capacity is all being used for CPU chiplet wafers at the moment). And, of course, moving to an x8 bus would just move the M.2 slot to there, and you'd end up saturating it if you put two SSDs in anyway. In the end there would be very little benefit overall for a lot of extra cost.

    I think more likely they had planned x490 as a version with USB4, but it was not ready so they didn't launch it. Note the 40gbit of bandwidth set aside for USB 3.2 off the CPU, which is conveniently the same amount a USB4 link would need. They could then also give mobo makers the option of using the "pick one" options to be additional USB4 ports.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
  14. Alessio1989

    Alessio1989 Maha Guru

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    I have a dream, I have a dream, one x590 MB with just one 10Gb ethernet port an everything filled with S-ATA III ports... A dream about a NAS/p2p server O___O
    This would a really nice solution...
     
  15. Reddoguk

    Reddoguk Ancient Guru

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    maybe the 590X supports DDR5 memory which isn't that far off according to some websites > Release date 2019 (estimate)
     

  16. Alessio1989

    Alessio1989 Maha Guru

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    The memory controller is integrated in the CPU package..
    [​IMG]

    The FCH/PCH has nothing to do with the supported SDRAM type, you can also disable it in some MBs...
     
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  17. MegaFalloutFan

    MegaFalloutFan Master Guru

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    I hope its true, i want one.
    This PCIe lanes kills me, I always need more, i cant use more then 2 nvmes and i want at least 3[x4 each], i want capture card [x4], i want sound card card [x1] and i have my 5Gb Aquantila [x1] and i want RAID card [usually x8] and i want it all in one PC and to keep my GPU at x16
     
  18. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

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    More PCIe lanes are probably for semi-pro users.

    But... how does this chipset cooling look like? :D
     
  19. DmitryKo

    DmitryKo Master Guru

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    WCCFtech news report implies "much higher" number of PCIe lanes, as well as much higher price.

    That would only make sense if 16(32)-core Ryzen 9 3950X replaces lower-end Ryzen ThreadRipper processors - where Socket TR4 platform offers up to 60 PCIe lanes on the CPU (of which 48 lanes are dedicated to two x16 slots and two x8 slots, and 12 lanes to three M.2 NVMe x4 slots), as well as 4-lane chipset downlink.

    [​IMG]


    CPU uplink lanes are typically excluded from the PCIe specs for both Intel and AMD platforms, even though they use PCIe protocol (like DMI 3.0 does) - only the external PCIe I/O lanes count towards the grand total.


    That's how things were in eary 2000s, until AMD Opteron and Intel Core included the memory controller on the CPU die.

    This would be no worse than current setup, but the chipset would have a wider uplink to better distribute the bandwidth to other peripherals.

    Well, USB4 is essentially ThunderBolt 3 from 2017 - that is 4-lane USB Type-C active cable where the four differential lanes are shared between 2/4 lane PCIe, 1/2/4 lane DisplayPort, or 1 lane USB 3.

    Release schedule for the USB4 specification is mid-2019, which means it's still based on Titan Ridge spec - i.e. PCIe 3.0, DisplayPort 1.4 and USB 3.1 (and not PCIe 4.0, DisplayPort 2.0, or 2-lane USB 3.2 Gen2x2).

    So it's entirely doable, though IMHO it only makes sense to implement PCIe part of the ThunderBolt spec on the desktop platforms, since they offer multiple dedicated DisplayPort and USB3 ports.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
  20. Hog54

    Hog54 Maha Guru

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    X599.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019

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