AMD: We’re Very Committed To Gaming So That’s Not Going To Change

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Jan 24, 2018.

  1. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    Yeah, to me it looks like people are choosing to use Titan cards as an example of milking, but comparing the prices against previous gaming cards instead of previous workstation cards.

    I'm not sure if it's deliberate or not though.
     
  2. D3M1G0D

    D3M1G0D Ancient Guru

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    I would gladly take a hit on my Nvidia stock if it means the end of the Titan series. No way would I ever support helping rich 1% gamers (for basically bragging rights) at the expense of regular gamers. Also, it will help me buy more powerful graphics cards for less so it balances out for me. To reiterate, as an Nvidia stockholder, I want the Titan eliminated.

    Nvidia sells the top high-end card as the Titan. If the Titan line didn't exist then they would be selling those cards as the Ti (kind of like what Nvidia did with the 1080 Ti and the Titan XP). It will also reduce the prices of all the products below, benefiting gamers across the board. The only ones who will lose out are the 1%ers, who will no longer have bragging rights.
     
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  3. Rich_Guy

    Rich_Guy Ancient Guru

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    In yer face! :D
     
  4. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

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    edit: never mind, read it on the train, sorry missed the second half of your post.

    I have to say though, I'm not sure everything below that full Titan chip would get cheaper... it's Nvidia after all :D
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2018

  5. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    It wouldn't though, removing the Titan line just removes that choice for the 1%
    Removing choice, even at the very high end is not something I approve of within PC gaming.

    Nvidia pricing is based on cost price/competitor pricing.
    The TI would still be exactly the same card at exactly the same price, it doesn't magically become the xx80 because there is no Titan card.

    The only reason Nvidia makes the Titan cards is because they can sell them at the current prices, if they couldn't sell them at that price then they just wouldn't bother creating them.

    It wouldn't get cheaper, there is only one reason Nvidia would do that, and that would be to try and kill off AMD and create a monopoly.

    Vega struggled enough. Imagine if the Titan became the 1080ti, and the 1080ti the 1080 etc...
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2018
  6. Agent-A01

    Agent-A01 Ancient Guru

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    I think your negativity is blinding you.

    Titan series does not affect you in anyway.
    You don't want to pay that much? Nobody is forcing you to.

    Titan series has always been expensive because it gives top end performance months before the geforce line up appears, i.e. Ti variants.
    I bought the original titan because i did not want to wait another year for the GTX 780Ti, plus i wanted more VRAM.

    In the end, it was worth the price.
    Don't really care if you think it's for bragging rights, that's just a stupid statement.
    Even current GPUs are still not fast enough.

    Plain and simple, it gives people more options.
    For which there is nothing wrong with having options.
     
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  7. D3M1G0D

    D3M1G0D Ancient Guru

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    Are you seriously telling me that they would deliberately hold back or cripple the design of their GPUs if they couldn't charge an arm and a leg for them? There is a very clear and simple reason why the Titan exists - lack of competition (if AMD had a viable offering then they wouldn't dare do this). Nvidia is taking advantage of their market dominance by pricing the top model of each generation of their GPUs way beyond reasonable levels. This is price gouging/milking, plain and simple.

    This is not to say that Nvidia is evil or corrupt - like any other company, they are trying to make as much money as possible. However, to claim that they are not milking their customers is ludicrous (this naturally happens in a capitalist economy when a company has a virtual monopoly). As I said in my very first post, I hope AMD eventually develops a strong gaming product, as I lament the situation that the GPU market is currently in (not counting the mining craze).

    If AMD hasn't developed Threadripper then Intel would be selling the 7900X for $1700+ (instead of $999), as that was the price of their previous 10-core HEDT chip (6950X). The thing is, there was no reason why they had to sell the 6950X for that ridiculous price, and there is no reason why Nvidia needs to sell a Titan for $1200; they did it because they could. If AMD developed a GPU that could beat or match a Titan then its price would collapse, and this would benefit everyone.
     
  8. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    I am mostly inclined to agree with D3M1G0D. Though there are more benefits to the Titans than just extra VRAM (particularly in compute performance, something nobody ever cares to look at), those benefits are becoming less apparent after every release. I felt the product lineup was stupid from the very beginning. I also think Nvidia's marketing team did (and continues to do) a terrible job with the Titan, since people keep insisting they're just for gamers, which they're not.

    However:
    I don't care that it exists. If people want to waste their money on it, go ahead - not my problem. I think they are milking their customers, and I couldn't care less. Nvidia has always had a higher premium, because even during their worst of times, they still held a strong reputation. Nvidia knows people will pay 30% more for a GPU that hardly has any significant performance advantage over a GeForce model simply because of branding alone. People are gullible and their desire for more is insatiable. As for me, I'll save that $300+ on something that will actually improve my life.
     
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  9. sammarbella

    sammarbella Ancient Guru

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    No, it's completely reasonable and you know it and even said that reason:

    Lack of competition.

    Do you know what is completely unreasonable?

    Vega 64 launch price (and 56 to an extend) IF (giant IF) it was really a gaming GPU looking at competition prices and performance in the gaming market.

    Nobody forces you to buy the top performing GPU in the market, it' not water.It's a first world luxury good.
     
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  10. JamesSneed

    JamesSneed Maha Guru

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    I don't have a single issue with Nvidia or Intel milking customers with their Titan or HEDT products. Just about anyone in there right mind would do the exact same thing if they could ie charging what you can for a product. The problem really isn't that they mark up the prices, it is the lack of competition that is allowing it to be profitable. If only the landscape wasn't one giant GPU maker and one giant CPU maker versus a little guy that makes both products. I assume nothing will change in this regard in the next few years. All we can hope is AMD can get on top in CPU's or GPU's for longer than one refresh cycle or a new competitor comes along which seems unlikely.
     

  11. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    Nvidia could barely supply the 1080Ti to customers when it launched - it was out of stock for nearly an entire month. Can you imagine if they waited for full GP102 chips instead of cut down variants? It would have taken 3-4 months to provide an adequate supply. That's why Nvidia uses a cut down chip for the Ti - they have like 85%+ marketshare, the number of Ti's they sell is probably equivalent to the number of RX580's AMD sells because they sell to so many more customers overall.

    Also a full GP102 1080Ti would definitely sell for more money due to the supply constraint and arguably lack of that premium on a theoretical Titan model above it. 1GB of ram and a few extra shaders? I prefer the $650-700 cut down version that I can actually buy somewhere near launch. Then Nvidia can use the $500 premium that data centers are paying for that extra 1GB of ram and TCC mode to subsidize the cost or throw back into R&D, because realistically the number of gamers "fooled" into a buying a Titan X is like 4 - like literally any benchmark/review site/publication that features Titan X essentially says its a massive waste of money for gamers.

    The extra VRAM is nice but again the biggest selling point of the last few Titan's is TCC mode, which while an artificial limitation still made the Titan Xp nearly 1/5th the cost of the Tesla equivalent yet fairly usable in compute clusters. The reason why Nvidia sells for more is the value-add features, Jens talked about this back when Kepler launched. He said something akin to "Even if our cards had the same performance as competitor equivalents we'd still charge more because of features like Shadow Play/Gameworks/etc" - obviously some of these have been mimicked by AMD since then, but he believes those value add features make his cards worth more to people. Some will disagree with the value of those features that but I've had friends purchase Nvidia cards over AMD while being on the fence specifically because of things like Shadow Play so it's definitely worth something.
     
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  12. H83

    H83 Ancient Guru

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    Why are people concerned with Nvidia and others milking the high end market??? It´s only natural to do that, every company does the same. Just look at the german luxury cars brands...

    For me the problem is when companies start to milk their customers in the lower segments...
     
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  13. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    Nvidia are definitely taking advantage of AMD being behind, but the ti cards are the top gaming cards. The Titan cards are an expensive novelty for people who don't consider that alot of money, and probably also need a card that is more than just a gaming card.

    I have noticed that many think the world revolves around gaming, and there is no other use for a GPU. It's quite common these days to see professional cards slated for their price when it comes to gaming performance.

    I honestly can't understand why why anyone would think it's an attempt to milk gamers. Last I checked itnearly 50% more expensive and slower in games.

    I feel like i may be missing something, and a card was released that passed me by lol

    Excuse any grammar issues, still not used to typing on my phone :(
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2018
  14. fry178

    fry178 Ancient Guru

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    @D3M1G0D
    i would accept the meaning of "milking", if Nv increased prices on all consumer cards,
    but not if it relates to ONE product being overpriced, out of 8 different gpus.

    Besides that, the card is NOT even part of the GTX lineup, so your complaint about the price, of a product that isnt even sold in their (gaming) lineup,
    is like complaining about the cost of shipping stuff into space: its virtually irrelevant for 99.99% of us ;-)

    https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/shop/
     
  15. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    it didnt take long for this to devolves in to Nvidia this Nvidia that topic
     
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  16. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

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    I have to admit though, if you go to nvidia.com and hover over products and "Geforce Gaming", it lists the Titan XP Collector's edition :D
    But I agree with the common sense that it's more fitting to a professional or semi professional field than it's needed for gaming.

    hehe like I said, we could have united against the miner enemies, but no :D
     
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  17. xIcarus

    xIcarus Master Guru

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    Look, if Nvidia want to milk the Titan series they can absolutely do so as long as they don't milk the rest of the lineup.
    Like @Denial said TCC mode makes Titan have a certain place and justification for the price, even if niche. On the other hand, the prices for the rest of the lineup is reasonable across the board, and especially in the high-end. Remember, they've had no competition here for such a long time yet the prices were reasonable compared to past generations; even though some cards look like they carry a price premium due to the more expensive fab process (like the 1080Ti being $50 extra from last gen's 980 Ti, though admittedly the 1080Ti is also closer to the Titan hardware wise).

    On the other end of the spectrum you have Intel which have milked the crap out of everything they had in the past 7 years and all of a sudden started releasing 6-core processors when AMD started annoyingly (for them) poking them with a stick. Food for thought: how much would have the 1080Ti cost if it belonged to Intel? What about before Vega came out?

    My 2c.
     
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  18. fry178

    fry178 Ancient Guru

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    @fantaskarsef
    yeah, looks like those "most relevant.." search results you get (vs "all" results) so companies can show you crap you dont even want...
     
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  19. ubercake

    ubercake Master Guru

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    I don't either, although one thing I've never seen to date is a knee-jerk reaction from Intel with the release of three different mainstream processor lines and architectures in a single year in response to the competition (AMD)! That's unheard of. This was all to do whatever possible to lose as little as possible market share to AMD.
    They have made the market competitive again. Who benefits? We as consumers do.
    Personally, I love all tech no matter whose it is if it does what I need it to. I'm still rolling with a 2011 3930k and just upgrading graphics cards as necessary.
     
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  20. yasamoka

    yasamoka Ancient Guru

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    Why would you not? Interested in the reasons. 1080Ti draws less power, has more VRAM, and performs a good chunk better.
     

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