AMD VEGA Launch Imminent ?

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Aug 15, 2016.

  1. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

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    I haven't had the need to switch to win10 so far, but I will test install it too, soon. But I haven't found a game that would run horribly on intel / nvidia, that only works under dx12...

    Then again, dx12 never was meant to drastically improve top notch systems either. Maybe under utilized top notch hardware, but never the ones that already performed great.


    That's under no circumstances on purpose... :rolleyes:
    I will find it out soon, but I doubt feeling the difference, didn't feel it going from 7 to 8.1 either.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2016
  2. Loophole35

    Loophole35 Ancient Guru

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    He is just responding to the claim that AMD will have the first HBM2 equipped GPU. That's is the point I think he is trying to make. Though most of us understood Undying was referring to first consumer level desktop PC AIB GPU.
     
  3. Stormyandcold

    Stormyandcold Ancient Guru

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    Not a BF fan unfortunately.

    However, if Doom had been win10 only...I might be on w10 already. Cheers id :nerd:
     
  4. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    http://www.pcgamer.com/total-war-wa...md-still-cant-match-nvidias-dx11-performance/
    A newer review with very different results.

    Remedy has suggested DX11 will perform better.

    While not important to you, poor and non existent multi GPU is a step back.

    This is off topic and im on a phone so post is short, but based on their own expressed reviews not everyone's as excited about the new api's as you are.
    They have potential, but that hasn't been realised yet.
     

  5. Rich_Guy

    Rich_Guy Ancient Guru

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    Neither have i, i just don't see the point yet, its only for Dx12, but theres no proper games yet using it, only got a couple or so Dx11s that have been patched, big bloody deal :p
     
  6. Stormyandcold

    Stormyandcold Ancient Guru

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    Coming from someone like you, who apparently would benefit from win10 says something about the current situation.

    DX12 for the most part is either an after-thought, or patched-into most games that support it. There is nothing stopping Forza or Killer Instinct from coming to DX11. It's only an "artificial limitation" to get people onto W10.

    This is where the argument changes, because when there's hardly any performance benefit, then, people say it's not a DX12 game built from the ground up.

    When there is some benefit, people lay on the praise while ignoring all the problems people are having.

    How many times have we seen people bashing Nvidia's drivers (who are by no means guilt-free) only for the problems to come back to W10? Quantum Break GTX970 crashing? Win10 management error etc. Even the Doom crashing was eventually found to be a Doom problem.

    As far as I'm concerned, for my systems, W10 isn't ready and the more they lock it down, the less likely I want to join in.

    Even big companies like EA who were going to make Battlefield, Mass Effect and even the next Need for Speed DX12-only have backed-off. It's a very telling situation.

    Releasing a full-retail DX12-only game is short-term a commercial disaster. Money talks, which is why I fully believe EVERYONE is going to get to play Quantum Break now. Why artificially limit your potential market?
     
  7. Finisterre

    Finisterre Member

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    That is you assuming and speculating what NVidia can and can't do.
    You simply don't know.
    And why dragging a 1080ti into this?


    And how is this speculation a fact?

    Hype.

    Don't put your words in other peoples mouths.

    Fact is P100/P102 chips are in full production and now P100 with HBM2 is too.
    Vega chips are not as far as we know.

    Mobile is also out.

    I don't expect that NVidia will be sitting on there hands the coming 5 months.
    (Get the point now?)

    If the bottle neck turns out to be the availability of HBM2 then both NVidia and AMD will be affected. That might be more of a problem for AMD as NVidia needs much larger quantities of this memory.

    On the Polaris hype train claims of overclocks up to and beyond 1600Mhz
    were expected by some AMD fans.
    Not supposed to?
    The magic happened for Pascal.
    (Actually nothing to do with magic but competent chip design that goes back to the cuda cores redesign from scratch for Maxwell.)

    Well if that all is what vega can do it would be smart to generate a little less hype.
     
  8. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

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    It's because of WDDM 2.0. Latencies and the rest have dropped all around, especially for AMD systems.

    PS: Tell her good luck in maximizing windows. :p

    The PCGamer system you link has a 5930k@4.2GHz, while the OC3D system is a 6700K@4.7GHz. Sounds to me that the GeForces are single-threaded bound in the PCGamer article, since that Skylake at +0.5GHz will destroy the 5930k in single threaded performance. Their behavior makes it look like more a traditional API is used, since they seem to be so dependent on the single-threaded performance. That's a GeForce driver/architecture issue, not an API issue. It's like blaming DX11 because GCN has bad serial-submission performance.

    I guess you mean The Creative Assembly, but do you have any link? They have said that the DX12 support is a beta indeed, but Total War games (and anything with a lot of stuff in screen) are literally the kind of games that these APIs will have a benefit from.

    The multi GPU support on the API level is the same. What you mean by multi-GPU support is called explicit multi-adapter and it exists. In fact, DX12 gets double the scaling, even on a "patched-in" title like Rise of the Tomb Raider. On top of that they add the ability to mix and match with implicit multi-adapter. If that's implemented is in the hands of the developers, and not an API issue.

    We are at the beginning for sure. But apart from some NVIDIA driver glitches (mainly), there hasn't been anything negative from the new APIs, quite the contrary. I seriously haven't had a bad experience where I can blame the API and not the developer. If you dabble a bit with DX/OpenGL programming you'll understand my enthusiasm. It's a fresh start for everyone, with a codebase that tries to (almost) get console-like efficiencies. I haven't been so excited about something since the first GeForce and its T & L.

    I don't know about Killer Instinct, but Forza was developed from zero for the PC with a DX12 engine. It was the first DX12 demo they showed. Seeing how badly Project CARS runs on AMD, and how badly Assetto Corsa runs on NVIDIA, I take Forza and its amazing engine that runs well everywhere, anytime.

    Tomb Raider, Hitman, Warhammer, DOOM, Dolphin Emulator. They all have DX11/OpenGL renderers and the new API support was "patched in". In all of them you would want to use the DX12/Vulkan API. If not for the average framerates, then for the lower latencies and the better minimums which are sometimes much more tangible differences. And it also helps us AMD peasants realize what we have sitting in our boxes, so win/win?

    So you have to also realize that there is a difference between game code and API code, right? And that when things are called "beta" that's for a reason, right?

    Well, with the Anniversary update you can officially sideload UWP apps:

    [​IMG]

    You can even run the Ubuntu userland on top of it. It runs natively actually, there is no emulation. It's the opposite of lockdown.

    What you should protest is NSA and the FISA court, not Microsoft/Apple/Google doing what a secret court orders them to do. It's a classic case of issue misidentification.

    When was it even ever implied that they would only run under DX12? Any links for that? The only thing out there was a major DICE developer wishing they could have Windows 10 / DX12 as a hard requirement. That's financially impossible, of course, but the wish should tell you what actually knowledgeable people believe about the new APIs alright.

    Why would it ever be DX12-only unless the majority of Steam HW survey computers were DX12-ready? As for "artificially limiting", switching from a low level API to a sh*ty high level one where you have to deal with the bullcrap accumulated for a decade once more, is not "artificially" limiting at all. Read again the wish from the DICE guy I posted on top. The backports to DX11 are a concession to people who spend $400+ for a piece of hardware but are unwilling to get a free OS license. Which is kinda sad.
     
  9. jura11

    jura11 Ancient Guru

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    This P100 is not for sale to consumer,only you can buy this Tesla P100 as part of their server,that's it,you can say is for sale,but just check with Nvidia about the availability,our company which tried to get that bloody server and we are got earliest date sometimes next year ..

    Availability of Quadro ir Tesla cards with HBM2 not sure if they will be out this year,maybe end of the year is everything possible

    Complete mobile doesn't use HBM2 or I'm missing something ? They still use GDDR5/X

    Die shrink and clocks speed,have look AMD have highest stock clocked CPU which has been on 28nm and still Intel never released faster than 4.4GHz which has been on 14nm,same can apply for GPU,AMD which has been based or are GCN never have high clocked cards what I remember and I don't think this will ever change on AMD,they simply don't need to run high clocks like Nvidia ...

    Expectation always will be,I've expected Titan X Pascal will be 16GB/24GB,same I expected TXP will have HBM2 or will be based on that

    I don't expect anything,I expect at least good performance/price ratio and if will win against GTX10xx series who knows

    Hope this helps

    Thanks,Jura
     
  10. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    No I don't get the point.

    This was the original post:

    You responded by saying "oops" then linking to the DXG-1 which has the P100 cards he addressed in his post. Also if the P100 was in "full production" then why aren't they shipping them until Q4? Point is nothing about either of the things you linked proved or even addressed what he said about consumer (gamer) HBM2 cards. It certainly didn't warrant a "oops".

    And no, I don't think Nvidia will be sitting on their hands for the next 5 months, but I also don't see them squeezing an entirely new chip out either. They divided their HPC market and their gaming market. GP102 doesn't have the FP16v2 cores GP100 has, nor an HBM2 memory controller. Gaming needs neither -- so I'm not sure why you'd think they develop one between now and then.

    I'm also pretty sure that AMD/Nvidia are sourcing the HBM2 memory from different suppliers. Nvidia was rumored to be going with Samsung and AMD was going with SK Hynix. If Nvidia is only using HBM2 for their HPC parts (which I suspect will be the case with Pascal) then not only can different suppliers have an effect on availability, but it may not be the case that Nvidia ships more HBM2 enabled cards then AMD does. It would depend on the size of Nvidia's HPC market compared to both AMD's high end gaming market and HPC market combined.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2016

  11. Stormyandcold

    Stormyandcold Ancient Guru

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    PrMinisterGR; As I said, you do the beta testing, I'm sticking. By the time I get W10 hopefully a lot of things will be worked out and I won't have to deal with down-time. I rely on my system working consistently everyday which is what a mature W7 gives me.

    Nothing sad about not wanting to be a guinea pig. I already went throught the beta to final process for W7 which also took over a year to rectify most issues.

    You preach about the plus points continually, cool. None of that matters to me, though, and it also doesn't matter to many more people.

    There is a price to pay for cutting-edge and that's time. While I'm willing to wait for a graphics card's problems to be sorted, I sure as heck am not going to wait for W10.

    I'm a gamer, but, I also do music recording for which I have many apps that I can't afford to be broken. My fellow band mate had his w7 install forced to update to w10, guess what? Gaming is ok, but, his recording setup is broke.

    That's not going to be me. Sorry. We all have our reasons, those reasons sometimes go above the potential benefits of upgrading. With the performance I'm getting...I'm not going to miss 10fps.
     
  12. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    Async is more marketing hype than anything else, it's a go to phrase for people who don't really know much.

    Nvidia has/will have good performance in all of those games, the issue is that DX12/Vulkan is not doing anything exciting for Nvidia users, and for those with multi GPU it's a massive regression.
    It's the same for CF AMD owners who are clearly biting their tongue when it comes to this, as even with crap scaling in DX11 they would have better performance than most DX12/Vulkan games.

    EDIT: PrMinisterGR, no i meant Remedy who tweeted that they had alot more experience with DX11.
    Obviously that is open to interpretation, but sounds very much like a apology for the DX12 performance and that DX11 will be better.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2016
  13. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    "Awful performance"

    I remember my first joke.
     
  14. Aura89

    Aura89 Ancient Guru

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    I know exactly what you said and did not cherry pick, you said what you said and my reply is 100% valid. Not caring about the future makes no logical sense in the electronic world.
     
  15. Stormyandcold

    Stormyandcold Ancient Guru

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    I'm just going to facepalm and no, it's not valid when you're quoting me out of context. Quote the whole paragraph.
     

  16. Stormyandcold

    Stormyandcold Ancient Guru

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    Dude, I have a GTX1070. Exactly where does my system lack in performance in relation to DX12?

    Btw, I love Doom and I'm probably one of the few who actually plays mp, it runs great and that's without needing w10.

    As for the others;

    Battlefield 1 - not interested. I have Bad Company 2, B3 and B4. I prefer campaigns, the mp side doesn't interest me.
    Deus Ex: MD - look good, runs on w7.
    Forza - nice, do want.
    Gears of War - nope, I have the original.
    AoTS - nope.
    Hitman - nope, and I've got a couple, but, can't get into any of them. Also has DX11 though, but, still nope.
    Warhammer - nope, never got into Total War, own none of them, but, I'm a big 40k fan though. Looking forward to DoW3.
    Mafia 3 - I have Mafia 2, didn't get into that either.

    Let me add;

    Killer Instinct - loved the original snes game, n64 was good, do want.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2016
  17. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

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    So Small vega10 around or a bit faster full NV GP104 chip and full Vega11 around TitanX - hopefully even more.


    Well its great, but still not that great..
    Imo Those true 3rd gen dx12 chips Volta and Navi will be killer chips, this atm is like a transition, its fast, but by very demanding stuff it'll soon be a 1080p gpu, even 980ti @1430mhz can be in rare scenario if "maxed".
     
  18. SHS

    SHS Master Guru

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    Hmm I guest I may hold out for this in stead of RX 480 I just hope it not darn expensive.
    Here what I got to say to you all of you need to zip your lip and just wait for a real spec and test results by Guru3D and [H]ardOCP or someone we can trust as there no point in going half cock over misinformation or her say or cook up benchmark as old say go don't judged a book by it cover.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2016
  19. Loophole35

    Loophole35 Ancient Guru

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    Vega 10 sporting 4096 GCN cores will likely only be about 40-50% faster than the 480. That puts it right around 1070 speed or slightly faster. I can't find any info on Vega 11. I don't expect Vega 10 to be faster than GP104 but would welcome it if it is.
     
  20. 0blivious

    0blivious Ancient Guru

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    Have you heard about the Nvidia 10 series? You may want to look at every one of those DX12 benchmark charts again and see what's on top.
     

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