Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Jun 16, 2020.
That picture is for you and you alone.
OH NOES, there is a slight delay in the predicted release of Zen3, AMD IS NOW GOING INTEL! No, sorry, no one is going to out Intel Intel.
Com 'on dude, every thread if AMD is on it give it a rest.
Jeez, Louise, there certainly is a lot of trenches being dug and barbed-wire being strung within this thread over an unconfirmed article.
How about some land mines? Land mines are good.
lol, hey now we're all entitled to our own, correct theories.
@Neo Cyrus i was against cutting support of the 4xxx to b450 and x470 motherboards you can see my post history , and yeah that was my speculation greed or some problem /delay too
I think its a good move for both AMD and consumers that it be delayed. Zen 2 is perfectly fine to hold up till then. The big advantage in this is when the CPUs are finally released, the chipsets, bioses and mem compatibility will be better optimized for them. Stability better ensured from day 1 of release. Something AMD has not had a good track record of in the past.
No intention of starting drama, but I can't agree with all of that. I think they should just hire the resources/talent to ensure a smooth launch from day one. There's no excuse for it anymore. They have more money to spend in that department with their recent success and should use it. If they're not willing to do that, then they should adjust their road map timeline to account for it. If you want to be the top-tier company, then take the steps needed to make it happen. I own a 3700x. I bought it well after release and they still hadn't figured out the chipset/bios issues yet. If that's the expectation, then I won't be buying AMD the next go round.
It's just my non-expert opinion, but if the Zen 3 design is done, and they can start mass production, do it. They need a solid outright win against Intel instead of just a near-parity tie. Yes, I know we're just talking about a gaming use case victory here as they do very well in the workstation/professional performance area, but I think they need that gaming win so they can claim the crown in all areas for the first time in over a decade. It will do a lot for brand perception/sales.
Bit torn by this. As an enthusiast, new tech is always desirable, and sooner rather than later ideally.
However AMD is making excellent market share progress with zen2 which is still pretty new. Bringing out zen3 now risks competing with itself, particularly in the desktop market. Makes more sense to focus on expanding their market share in laptops, servers, consoles and mobiles this year, make them into reliable funding streams and go into 2021 stronger than ever.
There is also a lot of conflicting node leaks from TSMC and whether 7, 7+, 5nm. While it seems less likely to be a capacity issue for 7nm (supposedly apple reduced orders, huawei stopped manufacturing there via US pressure), I wonder what further processes are for yield and cost effectiveness of use.
7nm seems to be hitting its proper stride considering XT chips coming out, must mean more high quality ccx cores to use in these cpus now.
The further issue is the broader idea of a propaganda war. I am not sure AMD need an absolute "win" against intel, as intel is undoing themselves with the current AMD competition. AMD should keep a couple of aces up their sleeve, ready to fight whatever else intel may bring to the table.
Internal testing was done, and zen 3 was slower than 10900k in cpubound games. Amd had to "fix" it, so they delayed zen 3.
Maybe they just needed more of that bundled merchandising extras and game coupons to go with the hardware...
...And with that out of the way AMD denouncing Intel as "Weak competition." is pretty hilarious to imagine but I don't think they are quite on that level yet where they can actually do that. ~
EDIT: Yeah that take Intel where's your anime mascot, ha ha.
Next year is going to be interesting with some competition and how that will change things up.
Amd should bring Ruby back.
Yeah I wonder what happened to their earlier mascot character, was used for a lot of the GPU tech demonstrations and then now there's this characterization of Navi and Ryzen instead.
EDIT: Sounds like there's also been a bit of these unconfirmed news or outright fakes too recently, AMD's 6900 GPU and then this about a Zen3 product delay.
Oh well it's nothing new, happens often enough and as usual it gets spread around and mass reported very easily although these two got picked apart pretty fast before it got too widespread I suppose.
Didn't they say that they will actually not delay Zen 3?
They have publicly committed to their investors that they will release it this year.
There has to be that talent to hire.
engineers don't grow on tree's.
AMD is doing Intel...
Have they not learned from Intel mistakes?
Just build when there's a sale that gives you the kind of performance you want for your money. PLEASE Don't wait your life away, if you enjoy building, go enjoy it! This from someone who's unable to get out on a regular basis due to physical health issues at the 'young' age of almost-40. Enjoy your life my man, enjoy your life. Provided it doesn't put you in financial hardship, go build a nice machine and ENJOY using what you've worked hard to earn. When new stuff comes out you want, sell or donate/give to family member(s) the older stuff.
The customers - almost all of us - wanted more clock speed. Well with how much we loved Ryzen 3xxx, a great performing chip for the power it uses (as I sit here not sweating anymore!).
The processors without coolers are being offered to us to reduce cost, and reduce wasted material that otherwise would have driven up prices for those who didn't need the heatsink/fan.
These are mostly meant for the upgrading crowd, as AM4 socket is reaching the end of it's useful life.
You can get the same cooler that comes (lacking the copper base!) with the 3600 CPU for 8.99$ to 12.99$ shipped off of Flea Bay (EBay). Go get it if you need it.
You can choose a processor that still comes with the cooler if you wish, but if AMD chose to include a beefy cooler for the XT models, many folks including you and I who likely already have a better or equal cooler would have to pay the extra 20~30$ USD for it.
I'm not so much trying to defend AMD (though fact-check I do have stock in them and TSMC), would you rather have a 30$ cheaper CPU where you can buy any 30~50$ cooler you wish for, for your individual build, for only a whopping 0~20$ more? I call that a win, especially now with the air and water cooling market as well rounded as it is now.
For contribution to the topic:
Delays are due to economy and also TSMC's two biggest customers just did an about-face:
Apple sales dropped off sharply as people realized they either don't need an Apple device or can get the same tech from someone else for much, much less (and they did) in a recession. Apple makes lots of I-wants and not as much of the I-needs. So they are affected quite a lot by the economy and how good things are going. This was TSMC's biggest customer and using 5nm IIRC.
Huawei is banned from using TSMC (well TSMC is banned from servicing their contract) by USA GOV. They were the second biggest customer of TSMC.
AMD was I believe the third biggest customer, and just as early as last fall and holiday season, had customers lining up to buy product they couldn't produce fast enough.
Put this all together and what do you get?
Lots of capacity on 7nm and 5nm that was previously reserved for others is now completely open to AMD, right when AMD needs it the most (if even a bit after the fact).
So this delay/switch-up is the result. No one saw this coming, but it'll be good for all of us when AMD finally brings their A-game to the table again.
It's a business, they don't LOVE you, they love profit. They don't make profit, you won't get CPU's, because they if they don't make profit they won't stay in business.
They can compete, and that they will, for that is their mission. They just had to fall back a bit and re-organize the play book a bit. These things happen.
It will pay off for ALL of US next year. Be patient, and enjoy the fact that yes AMD listened to their customers.
We didn't want something that wouldn't work with our motherboards. This is also the result of that. We got given the availability of chips with XT moniker with higher clock speeds for gaming.
Go enjoy this. Those chips are available for pre orders (be careful on price!) and coming out 7/7/2020 one year after Ryzen 3xxx.
Seriously, I am all for anything that means competition, because where it's there, we all win!
Those who still think they can complain, can harken fondly (likely by themselves) back to the days of intel quad-core dominance and little/only barely modest improvement generation after generation. No thanks!
None of this is a promise that we won't see Zen 3 4xxx before the holiday season, I'd 100% wait for an official announcement, but you never know. I am thankful for what I am given and will remain that way indefinitely. If and when we get goodies from AMD or Intel, great; if not - life shall still go on.
Fine print: Not a fanboy of anything but a good deal on good performing parts that won't be outdated overnight - a hard offer to meet in PC tech, but not impossible. I tried to type this all in a manner that's not offensive, but my apology ahead of time if it is to you (please tell me if it is, via here if you're contributing to the topic or over private message if not, so I can make corrections where needed). Thank-you for reading the fine print, and take pride in your good eye sight.
The mistakes that made them make more than 20$bn per year, and literally not be able to make chips fast enough
(I get what you mean, but there is that side to it too).
At least they are honest and acting in line with both consumer and shareholder interests. Maybe less on the consumer side.
Time will tell if this is the right decision.
I for one would not rush it if I can invest time in Zen 3 & 4 towards IPC and yield improvements which would put me in an even better competing stance with Intel for the foreseeable future as Intel still has the IPC and clock-speed crown.
Let's hope they are acting with a sound mind and not a greedy mind.
I personally think the recent success took them by surprise!
Wow you sound like a bad media headline. The XT CPUs are going to be the only ones that don't come with CPU coolers or 3800XT and 3900XT anyways from what I read. The MSRP is the same as current Zen 2 CPUs but as we see Zen 2 is far under MSRP at the moment. Not sure how this makes for overpriced Zen 2. We haven't even seen XT come to market. AMD has continuously sold under MSRP shortly after product launch. IF the XT only sells for MSRP and doesn't offer much multi-core clock headroom then just get the non-XT model that is cheaper and includes the cooler. It makes sense that the XT wouldn't come with a stock cooler that many won't use in the enthusiast level CPUs. Even at $499 the improved 12 core CPU would have benefits depending on the user. That's already the case for the current 3900X.
What we are seeing here is very likely the product of slow competition as the article stated. AMD probably originally saw Intel out of 14 nm by now and needing to push Zen 3 this year. Why rush a product that doesn't need to come out when your competition leaves you little reason to do so?
I'd love to seen Zen 3 come out ASAP and truly beat Intel in everything but I could understand if they delayed.