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AMD takes the lead in the new Forza Horizon 4 DX12 benchmark

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Sep 18, 2018.

  1. kings

    kings Active Member

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    Overclock has always been an extra! Of course if you overclock a GPU or CPU, it will consume more power!

    TDP is usually measured at default clocks on most brands. If you overclock, naturally the power consumption rises, but most people are fine with that, because they get extra performance.

    No one is forced to overclock the cards, we can simple run them at default clocks with the original TDP. But, if we have some headroom to gain for example 10% or 15%, i don't see that as a negative aspect.
     
  2. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    Why would you see that in marketing? It's a user overclock. Should they market that someone could shunt mod the card and drop liquid nitrogen on it?

    Did they? Nvidia's listed TDP for the 1080Ti FE is 250w. Guru3D's maximum power is 279w for the review but techpowerup has average gaming down at 231w. Seems like 250W is a fine average for Typical Design Power. You can also undervolt Pascal cards too and retain the same clock speed or even overclock them with less than stock voltage - something that people conveniently ignore when making these comparisons (this isn't aimed at you vbetts but all the posts i've seen in the last few days comparing the extremes of each vendor's card in order to make really weird points).
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2018
  3. Pimpiklem

    Pimpiklem Member Guru

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    I cant stand Radeon Chill it just adds latency to the cpu draw calls and i notice that to my mouse response.
    I prefer to just lower my clock speeds and keep the cpu draw calls free from meddling
     
  4. tunejunky

    tunejunky Master Guru

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    to me this is all silly.
    yes we are (mostly) into "hot-rodding" our equipment, but so many people who post here are talking about numbers out of context...
    who gives a flying fig what some card can do if you can't realize it on your monitor. and in saying that i have to remind green fanboys about the cost of g-sync.

    in all actuality those fanboys remind me of the people who buy high performance cars to use as daily drivers...and never hitting the track that they are designed for.
     
    Embra likes this.

  5. OnnA

    OnnA Ancient Guru

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    Yup, Navi for PS5 :D

    Long term smart decisions ;)
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2018
  6. Agent-A01

    Agent-A01 Ancient Guru

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    Actually not that different.

    Pascal scales well with voltage,
    Some cards can hit 2ghz clock speeds with .8v(stock is 1.05~)

    I run my 1080Ti right now a 2063~ with .9v.

    I've seen stock 1070 use less than 100w with undervolt too.
     
    tunejunky likes this.
  7. vbetts

    vbetts Don Vincenzo Staff Member

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    There's been a ton of cherry picking lately lol. But yeah, I didn't think Pascal cards really used a lot of power. TDP isn't exact, it's the average which is something people seem to forget.
     
  8. tunejunky

    tunejunky Master Guru

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    all i care about is 1440p, as i only play mmo's at 4k (in the living room). my office is my "man-cave" and there's never been a reason for a 4k monitor in there (at current prices for the size i need).
    1440p is well optimized for any card with a bit of oomph... in this case a 1080ti with an occasional plug in from my 1070 laptop. any Vega card would do well (excepting it's a g-sync screen).
     
  9. NCC1701D

    NCC1701D Active Member

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    The last AMD (ATI) card I owned was the 5870. Card was amazing back in the day and got me through several years of gaming. I bought it right around the time Fermi was launching when I wasn't impressed with the benchmarks and thermals from team Green. I haven't bought an AMD card since. Seems like they just haven't had a flagship card that can compete in many years. I long for the old days and would gladly go AMD again if they can get it in gear, but it ain't looking good.
     
  10. Reddoguk

    Reddoguk Ancient Guru

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    I've never heard anyone before saying how proud they are that their GFX card can be under-volt'd. Like it's some sort of a good thing.

    Sure if you are turning volts down to get some better Wattage usage results that's a positive but really. To me this just shows how bad of a job was done in the first place.

    I know what i'll do. I'll buy a near £500 gfx card only to drop the volts down to try get respectable power usage. lol.
     

  11. slicer

    slicer Active Member

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    Checking the VEGA56/64 prices in EU:
    https://skinflint.co.uk/?cat=gra16_...=eu&plz=&dist=&mail=&sort=p&togglecountry=set

    Cheapest custom cooled VEGA 56 ~448 euros ... ok, but not good.
    Cheapest custom cooled VEGA 64 ~495 euros ... thats a steal for a new VEGA64!

    You all know that soon after few generations NVIDIA cards will fall off the chart thanks to poor driver optimizations for old gen cards.
    While AMD cards from R9 290 series are still performing same or even better now.

    I recently bought used Vega64 for 350 euros and slapped a Morpheus II custom cooler on +60 euros. Flashed with VEGA64 LC bios... BEAST!
    With some small tweaking FireStrike GPU score almost 26 000.
    https://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/16371364/fs/16190036

    Which is on par with heavily OC'd GTX1080 or even slightly better.
    But now GTX1080Ti's are also selling around 450-500 euros used, at least here locally. Which is also a steal! Considering the RTX2080 prices :D lol which are at same performance level.
     
    jura11 and Embra like this.
  12. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    Seeing as the 5870 wasn't a flagship and you don't have a flagship GPU now, what difference does it make to you if they don't currently have a competitive flagship?
     
  13. Jayp

    Jayp Member Guru

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    Not sure what everyone is excited about. This isn't AMD finally doing anything... These type of results have been seen year after year with Forza and PC. The game is developed for Xbox primarily and that is where AMD cards get the initial benefit. Nvidia will drop some drivers in a month or so and the AMD performance lead won't be as much or at all. This was seen with Forza 7 where everyone praised AMD and by game release or shortly after Nvidia was leading performance. I wouldn't get to excited about this result is all I am saying. BFV performance was looking really good for RX580 over 1060 and now that there are Nvidia drivers for BFV this isn't the case. AMD hardware in consoles has a lot to do with preliminary performance on PC.
     
  14. Jayp

    Jayp Member Guru

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    Nvidia performance falling off isn't exactly true. That was a case more so with the GTX 780 cards that many are misled to think represents the aging of all Nvidia cards. Right now the 980 Ti is still out performing Fury in majority of benchmarks outside of DX12 of course. If you are rocking a card that Nvidia doesn't provide up to date drivers for let's face it your performance is crap anyways. AMD and "fine wine" saying haven't really been showing in the recent years. Vega really hasn't improved in the year it has been out. I think the fine wine saying came from AMD making crap drivers in the past and finding new potential in recent years when their drivers became worth a crap. I doubt the trend will move forward and we are already seeing evidence of this. I am not trying to bash AMD. My secondary system is Ryzen/Radeon build. Anyways, this Forza result will change very soon mark my words.
     
  15. Jayp

    Jayp Member Guru

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    I agree with your post. Although, DX12 really doesn't matter for the most part because as of late the games look the same and Nvidia runs better on DX11 than AMD does on DX12 in most cases. DX12 brings a lot of promise but as of now I don't pay to much attention to who performs better on what as a long as there remains an option to get top performance on each manufacturer.
     

  16. NCC1701D

    NCC1701D Active Member

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    I have a 1080 Ti now, which I guess you could argue still isn't a flagship card, but whatever. I don't post on here often so I don't update my profile. Wasn't trying to ruffle your feathers, but I can see I did. More referring to the glory days when things were more even between the 2 companies and wishing AMD could catch up so that we would have more alternatives at the top end. I do see your posts on here quite often and I know you like to argue, so I will just leave it alone. Children like to play, and I am not a child that has time for games.
     
  17. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    I do not really like Vega. There were practical reasons for it from day it has been released till today when my reasons got confirmed again.
    But if it has right to be in "Fine Wine" meme, it remains to be seen with incoming big driver release.
    @NCC1701D : With the "Fine Wine" HD7970 did outlive GTX-680. R9-290(X) while power hungry for given gaming performance had quite special computational value. (Probably still has.)
    I used to have Fury X, not exactly winner, but more you hammered it with workloads, better it did. And with tweaks, it excelled at many things. (That being said, few people really got max out of it.)

    Apparently, since then Polaris had no high-end contender. Vega practically did not deliver its promised improvements (at least not those important for gaming). And if gaming IS the target, it was too expensive. But it is decent card for general computing. So if someone games and uses compute for some productivity...
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2018
  18. Jayp

    Jayp Member Guru

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    I totally agree that everyone has their use case and that should be considered. The 7970 did not outlive the GTX680 though and that is part of my point with the whole "fine wine" thing. Hardware unboxed compared the 680 and 7970 in 8 games about a year ago and found that when averaging all the game results together they tied. The 780s vs R9 290(X) cards was really the best example of "fine wine" we have seen in a while and really stands as basically the only instance in recent times that AMD aged better. AMD cards do have something to gain from compute but that benefit must be use case identified by the person purchasing. I don't disagree with your statements of using AMD for "productivity". AMD can be a good value if ones creative case benefits. There is another part of the issue to me with the fine wine. As a gamer who cares if my card performs better out of its prime when the performance is so bad anyways that I am looking to upgrade. I want my cards giving me all they can at the time I paid the big money for them and I want that to continue as long as possible. Getting more performance later when it is too late is just that... too late.

    Hardware Unboxed GTX680 vs HD7970
     
  19. WareTernal

    WareTernal Master Guru

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    It was top of the line when it came out. That means it was a 'flagship card'. Same with the 1080.
    So NCC has a history of buying flagship cards - maybe that's why it makes a difference to him...You see how that works now?

    It's nice to see AMD doing OK on this title, but at this point in the big picture, it's just 1 niche title and really not that impressive.
     
  20. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    That could have been very good comparison. But there is big "but".
    That comes from benchmark scenes which are nothing like real gameplay. All of them use scenes which have viewport almost static or always facing same direction.

    So even in games which cache over 4GB of VRAM, there is no need to actually swap large amount of resources between system memory and VRAM.
    I am pretty sure ultra textures in some of those games would cause issues in fast turning around even on 3GB vram HD7970 has. (I used to have one since day it was released till day Fury X got released.)
    Friend, who used to have GTX 680 and got 2GB version even as I advised him to get 4GB one, hated it as games with very high resolution textures came along. His depiction of stutter, micro freezes was clear. Reduced texture resolution and eye on VRAM use fixed it.

    I think that if that video was made with some action packed scenes, and a lot of turning around like players do, winner would be GTX 1050Ti.
     

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