AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D -1080p and 720p gaming gets tested

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Apr 12, 2022.

  1. TLD LARS

    TLD LARS Master Guru

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    ?
    Ryzen 1000, 2000, 3000, 5000 series all have there own max promised memory speed.
    The same goes for Intel
    The only thing that is fairly standard is the low speed boot up speed before XMP is activated, to ensure that the pc is able to boot up.
    No one prevents AMD or Intel to make a bios with a button that clocks the memory to max promised speed.

    Jedec is just the steps on the staircase, Intel can still choice how many steps up the staircase they want to promise would work.
     
  2. Kool64

    Kool64 Maha Guru

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    With DDR 5 being more expensive than my cpu mobo and ram combined I’ll be passing on Intel and next gen AMD. On a side note I’m going to be passing on Ada Lovelace too.
     
  3. Agent-A01

    Agent-A01 Ancient Guru

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    No they don't?
    Go to 5950x specs page.

    System Memory Type DDR4
    System Memory Specification
    Up to 3200MHz


    Intel lists the same thing. Up to 3200.

    That's not how it works. That's up to the motherboard manufacturers on what they want to say it 'supports'.
    Officially CPU makers will only ever say that they support jedec standards.

    Intel or anyone else would not claim that its CPUs can do DDR4 4266+ because some people will no doubt pair the cpu with the cheapest board they can find and wonder why it doesn't work at those speeds.
     
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  4. TLD LARS

    TLD LARS Master Guru

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    DDR3200 is not the base speed of DDR4.
    The 1700 is advertised to run 2667
    2700 to run 2933
    3800x to run 3200

    9900k 2666
    10900k 2933
    11900k 3200

    Nothing prevents Intel or AMD to promise DDR5 6000 speeds on the next generation CPU.
    They can demand a minimum quality of the board to support that speed.
     

  5. HARDRESET

    HARDRESET Master Guru

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    I am happy with 3800 cl14 tuned . Screenshot 2022-04-14 033939.png
     
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  6. Clouseau

    Clouseau Ancient Guru

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    You said it yourself, minimum standards. Nothing prevents Intel or AMD from stating a CPU will meet a speed with such timings that is above the fastest JEDEC standard. Not every motherboard states what max speeds above the standards a particular model will support. Some flat out state that this particular model will support a max speed of DDR4 4200 *OC. What is in the fine print is that even though the board will support that speed, they come right out and say that not every CPU will be able to attain that speed successfully. Yet state that every board of that model will support up to that speed. Nothing prevents Intel or AMD from doing the same. Their qualifier would just be that not every motherboard is capable of supporting stated speed.

    JEDEC is just an organization that defines a standard for a given speed. That is it. There is nothing magical about said speed just because it is defined by a standard. GSKILL is able to state that a particular kit of four rated at 3600 will work with my motherboard and CPU. I have this set and guess what, it does not work at 3600. The reason my CPU is the weak link. With two I can hit 3800 no sweat, but with four nothing above 3200 is stable. Yet MSI says my board will officially support speeds above 3800. So like I said, the silicon lottery begins as defined by Intel and AMD at speeds above 3200. 3200 was not chosen because JEDEC set a standard at that speed, is because yield of viable CPUs. Intel and AMD do not have to support up to 3200, they can chose to only support up to 2933 or slower. Just because a standard exists, does not mean they are forced to support that speed. The standard is there so if they choose to support that speed, they have to meet that speed at the defined timings set by the standard. They have the option to even state every CPU of that model will support 3600. They will just have to state the timings that guarantee that speed since there is no standard.

    The IMC on my CPU is ok, cannot reliably reach 3600 with four DIMMS filled but can reach 3200 at much tighter timings than what is defined by JEDEC.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2022
  7. rl66

    rl66 Ancient Guru

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    The "reasonably avaible" cursor move from the 2 extreme depending your geographic zone.
    Also the fastest is not the always the best, and can cause issue or lag (verified lot of time on many system during my life) and on that point AMD and Intel react really not the same way...
    So the best way to test is something in the middle... as Hilbert does :)
     
  8. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    Fetch latency probably, Broadwell shaved cycles off of AVX2 compared to Haswell.


    All i can say, is seeing the reviews just now, the 5800X is a better contender at $350 and the 5800X3D doesn't have much going for it :oops:
     
  9. Kaarme

    Kaarme Ancient Guru

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    Well, that's the reasonable part. I guess I worded it poorly. However, if you are doing serious testing, AMD should have at the very least 3600 memory. I don't know about Intel since I have no need to build a new PC now (I only need a new graphics card), so I haven't had a single look at the DDR5 scene and the talks among Alder Lake owners. Back when I was choosing the components for my current Ryzen build, I certainly read quite a few forum posts and such before setting my aim. Especially since lots of people were still saying 3200 even at that point, when Ryzen 3000 was already out. I decided to listen to those saying 3600. Intel should have, at least, whatever matches 3600 for AMD. Maybe even higher since 3600 with decent CL is hardly ambitious for AMD either. A real enthusiast (which I am not) would naturally try to take everything out of the PC components. Having good and optimised memory would also remove the "it's because of the memory" complaints. And it's not like you'd be testing memory when inspecting CPU performance, anyway. Remove all the bottlenecks you can.
     
  10. Agent-A01

    Agent-A01 Ancient Guru

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    I know that's not the "base" speed. The base speed is 2133. 9900K supports much faster than 2666 but at that point 3200 likely didn't exist as a standard.
    It's also known that the further down the product line of CPUs you go the worse parts you get. Weaker cores, memory controllers etc.

    They lower the officially supported speed to add a buffer for the varying setups as a safeguard.

    That is correct because jedec has specs for DDR5 up to 7000MTs.

    No spec past DDR4 3200 will ever exist as it is 'old' technology now.

    When DDR4 first came out, jedec spec only existed up to like 2400MT/s. As the years went by and DDR4 matured they added additional entries above 2400.
    DDR4 is done now so no more standards will be set.

    Anything over spec is considered OC. OC capability varies sample to sample.
    Mem OC also varies between different memory kits. It also varies based on density and amount of dimms.

    Intel or AMD shouldn't list the maximum frequency as that is mainly determined by board quality and the memory used.
    Since OCs aren't guaranteed I wouldn't make claims that it supports past anything other than what is standard.

    I know how jedec spec works. Any manufacturer can specify any of the specific frequencies/timings that they know will work.

    BTW your kit not working isn't purely a IMC limitation but also a board limitation.
    When a board specifies it works at 3800 that is the ceiling for 2dimms at maximum typically. When you add two more dimms that speed will be hard to achieve due to trace design.

    Something like an ASUS top end board hero board could easily stabilize your kit and your CPU because it's much better optimized for memory tuning.

    $100 more expensive to accelerate some games and be worse in others isn't good value for money. I think at that price point 5800X or 12700K are much better value
     

  11. cucaulay malkin

    cucaulay malkin Ancient Guru

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    I think you are very confused
    people who still game at 1080p are not the target customers for a 450 usd cpu
    people who still game at 1080p still mostly have a polaris or pascal,or even older gpu.


    lol at inexpensive,450,literally half the die is cache.
    get real,this is never gonna make it into a 200eur cpu.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2022
  12. TLD LARS

    TLD LARS Master Guru

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    I bought a Ryzen 1700 with 3200 memory 1 year before the 9900K was released, so the 9900K could easily have been verified by Intel to run at 3200, they just did not want to promise that speed.
    It was not because 3200 did not exist at the time, because it was running on my 1700.

    Same goes for the newer Intel and AMD CPUes, they choice not to promise high speeds, because it makes the discount motherboards more expensive.
     
  13. tunejunky

    tunejunky Ancient Guru

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    you are confused by the difference between us in the forums versus the actual real world of retail customers who incrementally upgrade.
    and there is a large gaming community who game on high refresh 1080p monitors, many do so professionally or in league play.

    just think Overwatch or Valorant and quite a few mmorpgs

    and the difference in performance at 1440p is notable and here you have the market segment with nice gpus.
    so i think you need to zoom out to see the bigger picture.

    also i have to note AMD is pulling off a performative coup in marketing for keeping to the AMD tradition of fan service.
    enabling bios flashes for old mobos is definitely easing the blow before AM5. but it is also a sign that AM5 itself will be a stable socket just like AM4 and 3 before.
     
  14. tunejunky

    tunejunky Ancient Guru

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    nobody ever set a price target of 200 on a 3d cache cpu
    that is spurious, immaterial, and random.

    3dCache is and will always be expensive
    there was never an attempt at anything other than a gaming-centric cpu

    one that does polish some apples, and has incredible promise.
    but it is the profit making equivalent of a publicity stunt.
    and it speaks of AMD's ability to turn around custom silicon and make it mainstream. the "cloud" is eagerly awaiting their version that's way more impressive than the 5800X3D.
    the AMD engineers realized the potential in games and pushed hard to get this baby to market, but the intention in design was never anything other than competitive monkeyshines as an appetizer to the main course of Zen 4
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2022
  15. cucaulay malkin

    cucaulay malkin Ancient Guru

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    show me overwatch and valorant numbers then

    so no 3d cache on zen4 inder 400 either,other than high end ?
     

  16. tunejunky

    tunejunky Ancient Guru

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    correctomundo
     
  17. cucaulay malkin

    cucaulay malkin Ancient Guru

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    then it's meh
     
  18. tunejunky

    tunejunky Ancient Guru

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    all one has to do is to google monitor sales by type
     
  19. tunejunky

    tunejunky Ancient Guru

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    based on???
     
  20. cucaulay malkin

    cucaulay malkin Ancient Guru

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    your response
     

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