Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Jun 21, 2019.
This 3600 beats my fx-4100 by double in mono and almost five times in multi.
No idea why.
I didn't set anything...
Fox, that whole comment is a terrible red herring.
Never said "crush", much less "expected to crush".
Intel vs Intel in a state of performance superiority is not the same as AMD in the state of inferiority vs Intel, plus all the hype/propaganda/publicity behind the release. How could you seriously compare a brand releasing new products when there's not competition and the inferior competition stating it has a new superior product?
Due to all the hype one expect what AMD said: being better (not "crush"...), in what I mentioned earlier and for what I mentioned earlier too, than Sky Lake processors, and noticeable better than their own Zen 1 and Zen+.
The "9600K being weaker than R5 1600"...that's...according to what measurement? Because in what I'm talking about, thus what matters in the conversation given you are critizicing what I said, games, frecuency, IPC, is not.
And why you are arguing from that standpoint, as if I was biased towards Intel? Let me clarify to you: I don't care about brands, I care about products.
I never mentioned the 9600K either...this is so strage to say the least... Why don't you ask me what I think of that processor instead (and for what reason), including comparing to a competing Zen1 or even Zen+? You should care if you ultimately assumed what is my "position". So let me tell you: simple, need better IPC? 9600K and even more if we consider how those overclock; need more threads and cool CPU? 1600 or 2600; need both? 8700, if 1600, 2600, X or not, aren't enough. I don't think I just said anything new, weird or outrageous...or offensive...I could be wrong, but that's what measurements tell me. Probably I'm just an idiot!
"Guess how many..." that's just a following from your wrong comparison and assumption.
"You should know yourself"...
Everyone is so emotional lately...
If I'm wrong, then say why. Rationaly. And that's it. No need for such a display of feelings.
Good post I guess, but wasn't that TDP, Total Design Power (or Thermal Design Profile), is an indicator of, as the nomenclature indicates, the heat the device can generate or the dissipation capabilities it needs from the heatsink to work as intended, and that everyone, especially here, knew the difference between that and power consumption? (not that you said that last thing yourself, but I read it so many times here and other forums, and there are sooo many videos about it and articles, etc...). Do many people still say strictly that TDP is the same as power consumption? (I really thought that was something already clarified, but...maybe not...don't know...). I know it's related, as heat has to come from the energy that is consumed, but there's efficiency, frequency, etc...but to say "what we tend to call"...no.
There was clear expectation that AMD's product must do leap which is not required from intel. You again reiterated that.
It is same as saying that AMD has to release equal product, but has to sell it for lower price.
9600K is weaker that R5 1600 in MT workloads for example. And as for power draw. I have good reason to not trust intel. While I have good reason to trust AMD.
And I think I was rather nice towards you as I did ignore those nonsensical blabbering 5.5GHz statements. Power draw numbers made out of thin air. And then ignoring actual performance of core and going for GHz argument... go see your FX 5GHz CPUs.
As for your gaming experience. I am sorry, but that CPU does not hold back your old GPU. That again means "Your KNOWING is just BELIEVING."
And you clearly ignore things that are out of AMD's hand. 7nm has certain electrical properties and require certain voltage at certain clock while drawing certain current.
(Few posts above you can look at properties of transistors used to make 2700X, their optimal clock is around 3.45GHz / power draw around 55W, going to 4.0GHz on all cores results in practically double power draw for meager 15% additional performance. Forcing all cores to 4.3GHz and chip easily eats 220W.
Not AMD's fault, simply property of those awesome transistors.
7nm is no different, it will have some optimal power draw to clock point and beyond that it will go exponentially to hell.
I actually already know approximate location and how it moved in comparison to Zen+ (since I know AMD does not cheat their power limits) as they released base clocks with number of cores and power limits.
= = = =
Now to rest of your comment which I quote now. AMD does not hype anything, they did show few benchmarks which justify pricing. And all the rest are likely FAKE leaks and people on internet.
(Same way as nVidia SUPER which were 1st 10% faster than regular and came at discounts... Or intel's alleged price reductions. Someone somewhere wants clicks to their website.)
Actually 9600K has worse IPC in comparison to R5 1600. (And I mean our real IPC in tech crowd, not intel's marketing spin IPC.)
1st Law of Thermodynamics says that PPT =~ TDP.
If PPT says that chip produces 80W of heat that cooling solution with 80W TDP has to keep it reasonably cool to continue operation. TDP itself does not state what will achieve some specific delta T, neither do cooling solutions.
That's why there are tests which show how good coolers are.
You would have to go to thermal conductivity, material shape, temperature differences in between chip, TIM, heatsink's base, heatsink's fins, air. And then deal with time. That itself means a lot of integrals and cooler manufacturers rather go with practical tests.
(Have you ever seen that poop of a thing intel bundles with their 95W CPUs which result in thermal throttling? And yet those poor things may be rated with same TDP as CPU power draw.)
In some tests in some benchs, but the main question, already asked, that you are ignoring is: so? Did I talked about that? Did I mentioned the 9600K even tacitly, in any its characteristics? No, I didn't. It is instead an unrelated issue you created to distract and or missrepresent...I wonder why you do that...?
You are not "nice" at all. In any way. Absolutely. Actually you are the complete opposite and worse too. Applying those sort of logical fallacies is an extreme low form of attack, and again: why? (well as I said, emotions, the only possibility, as if you were an AMD fanboy, you could be offended by what I said...but also an Intel fanboy should too then!)
That "blabbering" as you so nicely and totally not arrogantly and contemptuously you put it, were numbers I indeed out of thin air as I said in the same sentence (!!!), denoting you don't understand or you don't want too understand what I said, was to make another point...that you evidently didn't undesrtand either as you make the IPC argument...I also made in that same sentence!!!
So you just took as "nonesensical babbler" what you simply didn't understand...
According to afterburner, and benchmarks, it totally does. And if it doesn't, cool (but does). But why, again, you are saying this when I said before that I'm happy with this anyway.
Oh, you like quotes? There's one that says "arrogance is not fitti..."
So? You know that other people can understand excuses, right? Is not a concept I just invented you know...
Ok, get it. That means "limitations". Another concept.
What do you take from, for example, this?: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i5-9600k/16.html
Are you sure you want to be that absolute? Are you that sure to be that invested (or the other way around...)?
But, well, I saw big part of the E3 AMD show and, if that wasn't hyping...haha...then it was just a circus...
Sure there is a lot of that. But I was talking about AMD's words.
But listen, doesn't matter. This was just some few benchmarks including or rather especially for me the CPU-Z one that AMD didn't actually talked about. Next month we have the real thing and we will know. My words were with the perspective of this leak being true. So IF this was true -> what I said. But I don't know if it is, so lets just wait.
What do you mean? Do you mean all threads and total work with all threads working plus power consumption, instead of work per thread?
^ @Fergutor , you are not able to hold one thought and messing things into a soup. Therefore I'll reply only to part where you managed to form a coherent thought.
You came with claim that given chip is worse in following categories: games, frecuency, IPC
I kindly corrected you as you was mistaken with IPC. You bring into IPC discussion underlined parts of your quote above. Is that how you want to explain it? Or as some kind of reverse counter?
What did you not get from mine: (And I mean our real IPC in tech crowd, not intel's marketing spin IPC.)
That was meant to warn people with less knowledge to take step back and think about what IPC is. So why would I mean those underlined things?
Or did you made that post just to waste my time? Thinking that I will do separate quote to each of your incoherent thoughts? Are those half thoughts even thoughts? By some measure: "Half thought is not thought at all."
Once all the real world PC Gaming performance benchmarks are coming this July will show the truth ...
The fastest 6 cores and the fastest 8 cores stock vs stock CPUs for 2019 are the 8086K and 9900KS.
AMD is going after 21 months old 8700K performance with the 3600X.
As AMD is going after 9 months old 9700K & 9900K performance with the 3700X & 3800X.
So far blow for blow dual channel benchmarks.
8086K and 9900KS will remain top fastest 6 cores and 8 cores PC Gaming crown CPUs for 2019 ..
AMD takes the crow for the fastest dual channel CPUs with the 3900X & 3950X but that's a different cores story ..
8086K will outperform 3600X stock vs stock
3600X, 3700X, 3800X all win with better power efficiency and prices !!
and Yet the 8086K is still going for £350 the 8700K goes for around £330, while the 3600X is will be going for around £220. So after 21 months the 8700K is still at RRP. Although from the looks of it in multi core performance the 3600X will win but the 8086K will win in single core performance with it's significant 19% clock speed advantage but not by much and is 1/3rd cheaper.
What about this guys?
Overclocked linux geekbench result?
Compared to this
Does anywhere it state what the overclock it is? Or that it technically is overclocked? I wouldn't believe it's not, i'm just curious what the overclock is supposed to be since all it says is 3.6Ghz....
It always had trouble detecting OC. Sometimes some results have proper clock shown. But mostly not.
Well i've been looking around and it seems like, if 6440 is true, that's getting close to Ryzen 1700x @ 5Ghz scores. An AMD Ryzen 5 2600X @ 5.1Ghz appears to get a 6473 single-core score.
So this may be (if it's a 15% IPC increase in geekbench) a 3600 OC'd to 4.4-4.5Ghz?
The multi-core performance seems a bit better though
2600x @ 5.1Ghz Single 6473 Multi 29996
3600 OC Single 6448 Multi 32869
There's actually a lot of listings in there for the 3600, so whoever it is, is definitely testing out different OC settings.
Say the guy whose only arguments come from dishonesty, misundertanding (if theres any understanding) and unlimited arrogance: replaying to specific things I never said, create unrelated arguments that he think (unsuccessfully) he can then counter to somehow make me look bad (?), misrepresent my position, project bias to make things an issue, talk from a high horse position without any justification...etc, etc, etc...
Sure buddy, I'm seeing right now in another thread how you threat others in the exact same way, condescending, full of fallacies, lying, aggressive to defend your clear bias, I mean seriously losing your head when you see your preference geting probably barely criticized, which is what happened here: nothing I said in my original comment was in anyway "controversial" (you that are of the thin skinned kind) or biased, or terribly wrong, etc. I was just providing my opinion to another guy's question, if anything, there were some "IF" that were presented as that, and even clarifying (FFS!!!!!), and you still came all offended vomiting red herrings, etc.
I made you an honest question on what do you exactly mean with your statement, that clearly is contrary to what we all know by benchmarks including the ones in this webpage...
And you respond with artificial suspicion, paranoid thoughts and projective accusations of dishonest argumentative resources and no real response or clarification of your statements!!
And by the way "I kindly corrected you", "real ipc in tech crowd", "Are those half thoughts even thoughts"...Your horse is hiiiighhhhh. There's not a shred of humility left in you, right? (Nor self awareness)
Well, given how you conveniently igonred my previous comment (and all the dishonesty and lies you vomit), is clear why you have to resort to fallacies: your pride is entirely synthetic. Shame (or funny).
So now I wonder if you said that the 1600 have better IPC than the 9600K (out of thin air again haha) because you have a real reason (totally probable, that's why I asked) or you didn't respond because you just invented that out of emotions to come with another lie that you "thought" was necessary to agrandize and justify your preference to somehow feel you are right (?)...
Forget it dude. No point in talking with such dishonest and arrogant person.
(To the mods: before you delete this comment, please bother to see if my "aggressiveness" is justified or even such, and made out of ad hominems or not. Lately, lazy mods from other sites are punishing people for daring to respond to old ill-manered and all around sneaky toxic user as Fox2232, and letting the latter get away with their bull. This dude, as I'm seeing in other threads seem to always create problems and what you would call "toxic environments" with his attitude toward others.)
Hey let's make this simple.
If you don't have anything nice to say to anyone, don't say it.
Stop being children. This isn't directed at one person either, you can have a conversation like fully functioning adults. I believe in you.
So, just do it.
Depends how technical and rigorous you want to be. It depends on what do you mean by power consumption. And it depends on whose TDP definition we are talking about.
Yeah... turns out that when we turn to the real world even the simplest physical concepts (like heat and power) require substantial nitpicking and attention to details. And neither AMD nor Intel found it necessary to rise to that level or rigor when it comes to publicly communicated definition of "TDP". And much of the confusion around "TDP" stems from the fact that AMD's and Intel's TDP definition themselves are not particularly well badly defined.
Honestly its a relief that finally someone has caught up with this (@Fox2232 in this case), and that I am not alone trying to explain that in first approximation and for 99% of our discussion needs, that indeed TDP = power consumption, and that that is the only way to make the term useful and relevant.
The reason being, again, that if you want to be technical and precise, you'll turn out to be too clever for your own good, because there are multiple definitions to begin with, both bad, and you'll end up with useless physical term.
If you want to know more, this is a good article, albeit with some glaring mistakes
Yes Intel is worse when it comes to TDP and its usability because they are talking about base clocks(pffftt), and AMD's tdp is more representative of the real world power. From the technical standpoint I'd argue that AMD's definition is even worse than Intel's.
My 32'' FreeSync HP is fully prepared to be replaced with 144MHz (Freesync/Gsync).
Next time I see TDP .NE. Power Consumption or god forbid "TDP has nothing to do with power"... it's a goner. Pow! Straight to the Moon
The first review is out, for the Ryzen 5 3600, in Spanish but pictures speak louder than words. The 3600X is giving the 2700X and 8700K a good kicking in multi threaded: https://elchapuzasinformatico.com/2019/06/amd-ryzen-5-3600-x470-review/
Memory bandwidth looks really strange compared to all the other CPU's more so the write speed, memory latency is worse than all others, maybe a BIOS bug in the X470?
Gaming tests conducted at 1080p with a RTX2080Ti
Just read the review. The positive points are the IPC increase, around 5% to 10% worse then the Intel 9900K, and the multithreaded performance, almost as good as the 2700x despite having 2 fewer cores. In gaming is also better than the 2700x and slower than the 9900K by a 10% average.
The negative points seem to be the latency, the very low memory speeds, must be some sort of bug like Dazz wrote, and the power comsuption seems to be unimproved despite the 7nm node.
Conclusion, the 3600 seems to be a great chip for a value oriented gaming rig!
I hope all this is correct because my spanish is not very good.