AMD Ryzen 5 1400 gaming performance leaks - analysed on YT

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Aritra Das, Apr 1, 2017.

  1. eclap

    eclap Banned

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    Yes, I know there's a correlation between fast ram and the infinity fabric interconnect performance but still, it's not the only issue. You just can't ignore the fact that i7 has higher IPC and clocks 1ghz higher too. It's not like faster interconnect will make that go away.
     
  2. EspHack

    EspHack Ancient Guru

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    sure, until GTX 1280 gets released, then it will matter even at 5k
     
  3. XenthorX

    XenthorX Ancient Guru

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    i won't bother benchmarking any game until the game engines get updated to handle that many core, which only concerned a small part of the market before (X99) HT aside ofc.
     
  4. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Guys, what the hell is wrong with you and Ryzen?
    I just went through 4 pages where half of the posts were made by clearly triggered people. Posts with no value at all, just mud flying left and right.

    Reality today:
    Most of modern games utilize up to 4 threads. Some utilize more.

    You may ask why don't we have more games utilizing more threads since Bulldozer came years ago?
    It is simple: Bulldozer total performance was just bit higher than i5-2500k when both overclocked. So why would developers spend extra resources just to extract same performance from few more CPUs.

    But intel had 6C/12T and 8C/16T CPUs around even in prices available to some gamers.
    Yes, but only to total minority.

    Today we have Ryzen with 6C/12T and 8C/16T which once used properly delivers "intel-like" per core performance.
    (Now think about it. Average intel CPU owner who got it for gaming does not have unlocked chip, therefore no OC. But all Ryzens are unlocked.)
    => There is now objective reason to actually make games able to use more than 6 threads. And especially for gaming where DX12/Vulkan is designed to handle 6/8 threads just to feed GPU.

    Then we have this elephant in nVidia "serialized" GPUs and drivers. They did well at that for DX11, and they are not that shiny on DX12. (little to no benefit)
    On other hand, DX12/Vulkan for AMD are raising stars. (In hands of developers.)

    We have to face facts, software technology has been designed to use 6+ CPU threads just for GPU purposes.
    Good CPUs with 6+ real cores and 12+ threads are going to be available in good prices next week.

    Future is not in 4 Core CPU and even SMT will not change it. Future is in 6C/12T and higher.

    Even this Ryzen 4C/8T will be good just for some time and is optimal to feed GPU like RX-470. RX-480 may be bottlenecked in time but not much. There I would go for 6C/12T already as one may change to better Navi GPU in 2 years.

    And one should take this last thing into consideration:
    There is always going to be bottleneck somewhere. Question is, how much will cost you to move it somewhere else.
    When gamer pays for CPU+MB+ram much more than GPU costs, he/she should make sure that it will be GPU which will be bottleneck in long run.
    = = = =
    So in this lovely 7700k vs Ryzen 6C/12T or higher fighting... Platform costs is about same.
    But be honest with yourself. Count your spending on CPU+MB+RAM vs GPU. Even average G3D member (as being mostly high end gaming community) buys GPU which costs fraction of CPU+MB+RAM. And exchanges this GPU once, twice in life cycle of this CPU+MB+RAM.
    That's like 3~5 years life cycle of CPU+MB+RAM.

    Average i7 (4C/8T) and Ryzen 4C/8T will be out of high end GPU range within next 18 months.
    Ryzen 6C/12T will last with high end GPUs for 3~4 years.
    Ryzen 8C/12T will last with high end GPUs for 4~5 years.
     

  5. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

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    Although it's tempting to stirr up the clearly emotional debate around here I'd just want to say that I think this R5 CPU is pretty good for it's price, whole package considered. Nothing more to say / add.
     
  6. Aritra Das

    Aritra Das Member

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    Ryzen is still at its early phases, further BIOS updates will incremental improve performance .As far as synthetic benchmarks is concerned Ryzen works better on benchmarks which use more cores that single threaded performance efficiency. Cinebench R15,Blender and GPUPi to name some. Perfomance per watt of Ryzen is very good ,it can score around 600 points in Cinebench R15 at just 30W. Isn't that efficiency amazing ? I think it is. Coming to memory, since AMD has decided to lock out changing of sub timings from BIOS only few types of memories scale properly on this new platform. The rams using Hynix ICs that include the MFR,AFR and CFR (hardly used) are not preferable, However rams like G Skill Trident Z which use samsung based IC scale good in this platform. Higher ram multipliers are not recommended since they enormously increase the sub timings and lead to lower performance , this is the soul reason why BCLK adjustment is available on top end boards.Now, coming to gaming performance, YES Ryzen does bottleneck GPUs at 1080p. However, it is not the case with 1440p and 4K where it clearly beats the 7700K. Graphics card drivers and games are also yet not optimized for Ryzen CPU, so we will gradully see better perfomance.Ryzen R5 1400 is still a great CPU since it works better than the 7400 in most multi threaded work loads but in gaming it still lacks behind but things will change over time
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2017
  7. Bentez

    Bentez Maha Guru

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    Some really dumb statements throughout this thread I have to say..

    I think the importance of even being able to have a conversation about a viable alternative to intel's offering is lost on a lot of people!

    For me personally I decided that I couldn’t justify buying another quad-core part in 2017 but I understand that the 7700k makes sense for some people, it looks like a great gaming chip.

    Ryzen is a month old though! Performance gains via microcode updates, BIOS updates, RAM speed improvements, Nvidia dx12 and Microsoft driver updates are still in play! X99 was not smooth sailing at launch either! Ryzen is not the finished article whilst Kabylake is, the gaming performance gap at 1080p is only going to get smaller in the coming months.

    The value AMD has brought to the table whilst giving intel some actual competition is outstanding, end of discussion for me. There is a lot of justifying of purchases going on here, I think we have to look at where the value is for us personally and just respect the other side of the argument!

    I game at 1440p, and my 1700 is clocking to 4GHz at 1.35v with my RAM at 3200MHz C14.. I am really happy with the perfomance and can see this build lasting a similar amount of time as my beloved 2500K build.

    I have had intel CPUs for the last 9 years and they have served me very well, before that I was using an AM2 6000+, point is I get what intel brings to the table but the overall package of Ryzen isn’t something people should be dismissing because of 10-20% FPS difference at low resolutions on such a new platform!
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2017
  8. 0blivious

    0blivious Ancient Guru

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    Buy whatever you want for your needs. Gaming, workstation, a belief that fairy dust will make your choice much better in 7 years time.... Whatever floats your boat. Heed the advice of others when you ask ...or don't.

    But threads like this should never exist in a tech forum filled with intelligent people. Seriously. Let's all be adults. Fun can still be had without lowering it to the gutter.
     
  9. Silva

    Silva Ancient Guru

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    Why would we be fighting over something like this? I'm giving my opinion and trying to give arguments to corroborate it. Isn't what we all have been doing?

    Now I need a new GPU, I'll buy a new CPU either: when my P4 dies or I really need more CPU performance. If I had to buy today, it would be R7 1700.

    R7 1700 beats i7 6900k in allot of benchmarks, having less 200mhz base clock and costing 3 times less. Oh wait, you're talking about the i7 7700k that just by coincidence you bought...the one R7 1700 has close to 50% more performance and costs the same...Ok m8, have your opinion!

    IPC war is over with DX12 and Vulcan. multi core CPU's are not to blame if old software does not utilize them to their full potential. That said, even i7 6900k has more to give when software does use all cores.

    AMD clearly should have waited a month for BIOS to be ready :bang:

    My opinion is the same, only programs utilizing 4 or less cores benefit from i7 7700k. Any program working with 8 cores will put the R7 1700 on pair or above it.

    Again, Ghz and IPC war is over. Please wake up from 2006.

    You were right yesterday. Will you still be right "tomorrow"?

    HH does a brilliant job with the narrow time he has, as all the other tech reviewers. The fault is more on AMD side for releasing an half done product. For us who have time and can research for info we can take our own conclusions. Also HH always does extra tests when asked too on forums so no need to talk against him.

    Buying R5 or i5 is just a matter of preference, they perform similar in price/performance terms. What people fail to see is that R7 is a 1000$ chip selling for a few bread crumbles.

    Opinions are like that, not everyone likes them :banana:
     
  10. Alessio1989

    Alessio1989 Ancient Guru

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    Video is a terrible medium to share data.
     

  11. Agent-A01

    Agent-A01 Ancient Guru

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    I'll answer that for him.
    Currently 7700k is faster in gaming than intel 8/10 and Ryzen R7s in 95% of games.

    and if you respond with Ryzen is being purposely gimped because 95% of games only use 4 threads well then you're just being hard-headed.
     
  12. Amx85

    Amx85 Master Guru

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  13. Silva

    Silva Ancient Guru

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    Agree. My point of view was always: for the same amount of money as a i7 7700k, on the long run, isn't R7 1700 a better investment? We're talking about small differences in gaming performance, at resolutions no one plays at, almost always above 60fps and with allot of free processing power on Ryzen side wile some games almost max out 7700k.

    Is the link working? I can't open.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2017
  14. Amx85

    Amx85 Master Guru

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    Is´nt a AMD fault, is a game developer fault, Rise of the Tomb Raider runs better on the FX than on RyZen but stills being unnoptimized for the FX, then, is just optimized for Intel, RyZen has +/- Same IPC than Broadwell, a little bit over Haswell, but if games uses 8 or less threads and since the 4790K is 4.10GHz Base 4.40GHz Max Turbo (with a lot o Turbo states between it), RyZen R7 clocks 3.60GHz Base 4.00GHz Turbo for half threads, 4.20GHz for 1-2 threads. :infinity:

    Other thing, Nvidia has low performance on Tomb Raider with RyZen even on DX12, when you uses AMD cards the history is another, on R9-390X or RX seires cards +RyZen i saw better performance than Intel CPU :infinity:

    check more info before talk on that way
     
  15. Amx85

    Amx85 Master Guru

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    check phoronix :infinity:
     

  16. Amx85

    Amx85 Master Guru

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    is working
     
  17. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

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    The problem is, you see, that Ryzen should have been immediately faster on everything, have higher core clocks, not require any kind of software ecosystem updates, and cost even less, for a lot of people here to even consider it.

    Someone will probably post under your post, that "the long run" doesn't matter because they upgrade their CPUs every two years, or something equally stupid like that.

    I'm seriously amazed by people in here who seriously recommend to anyone purchasing quadcores for $300+ in 2017.
     
  18. airbud7

    airbud7 Ancient Guru

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    So we should all buy a slower 8 core something?

    7700K @5ghz is beating everything...Why would you/anyone buy slower?
     
  19. Agent-A01

    Agent-A01 Ancient Guru

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    1080P is the most popular resolution and differences can be significant.

    AMD's use 4k resolution for benching is a piss-poor tactic and shouldn't be considered.
    I don't really care about 800x600 tests either. 1080P is a good 'sweet' spot for testing.

    I also think people who use the "Who cares when you already got 60fps" arguments are making excuses for unknown reasons.
    Personally I would like to have a minimum FPS of my refresh rate(144hz)

    For general use and most likely games in 5 years will an R7 be a better investment vs i7 4 core?
    Absolutely.

    At the moment we only have a handful of games using DX12 and Vulcan.

    It's going to be several years before we have many titles with those APIs.

    So for several years 7700k will likely still be as fast or faster than ryzen in the majority of titles.

    With that in consideration and the several issues with Ryzen at the moment(poor memory latency, bad performance in multi-threaded games that perform well with 8 core intel, bios issues, etc) I don't think Ryzen is a good buy at this moment.

    If they can solve those issues then it will get my recommendation but until then I'd say the best bet is to wait for Ryzen+ next year which will have solved those aforementioned issues.
     
  20. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

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    And how many do 5ghz.? Yeah none unless you delid it and void warranty..
     

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