Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by chispy, Apr 16, 2019.
50th annirversery? Is that how many years AMD has been making cpu?
No, it's how long AMD has been in the semiconductor business. AMD has been making ICs long before they were making x86 CPUs. Every once in a while, you can look at some PCB made from the 70s or 80s where some of the chips might have the AMD logo on it. I actually have a PCI diagnostic card with 4x AMD chips on it, though I'm not sure what they do.
IBM just contracted AMD to make an x86 equivalent so Intel wouldn't become a monopoly. This is why the first few CPUs AMD released were totally electrically compatible with Intel's where back in those days you could put an AMD CPU in an Intel socket.
Yup, and no amount of factless information you spew will change that.
Aura - Sorry do you have any concrete information confirming that 7nm at TSMC has had significant yield problems for AMD? I have been quietly keeping tabs on the Ryzen 3000 progress and I haven't seen anything at all indicating a problem or delay in TSMC production. I am hoping for some leaks on the 23rd and an update during the April 30th investor statement from AMD, probably prior to a June announcement and July or August launch - although we are all just guessing on dates.
TSMC lost 10,000 or so wafers earlier in the year, but they were from their FAB 14b facility on a 12/16nm process not something affecting 7nm.
The only news sources I can find speak to fabrication well underway and TSMC ramping production of 7nm de to the order numbers received.
You are arguing a position contrary to the public information coming both from AMD and TSMC without citing a source yourself. In AMD's case directly from investor statements which would be illegal AFAIK.
I never stated it did. Read my specific replies, which have everything to do with a Zen+ on 7nm not being viable, they would never get their money back. No company is going to put a R&D to shrink a product for one product release.
Only time i spoke about yields was the idea that you could look at the radeon VII and come to any conclusion about yields from that product, which you can't. The supplies are low, they aren't flying off the shelf, and yet they go our of stock often. But considering this is just a byproduct of the mi50 and mi60, and there are only 3 products using 7nm for vega, it would imply yields are low, or, that AMD is intending to not make many of them.
Point being is unless there is facts about yields that are publically available, no one knows what the yields are. Nothing can be definitivelt determined from vega 20, and any actual information that could be taken from vega 20 would be that yields are low. I am not saying that is the case there though, as no one knows.
Zen+ 7nm won't happen
No one knows the yields of 7nm (good or bad is subjective, concrete information, stats, percentages, etc. That is important, if they have let that actual information out rather then just saying the yields are "good", then please provide proof, i'd like to see that)
Vega 20 on 7nm does not imply that yields are "very very good", if anything, implies otherwise.
Ahh fair enough. Zen+ @ 7nm is incredibly unlikely. AFAIK the roadmap is pretty clear on Zen2 being the only Ryzen chips that are going to 7nm at this time. I had not even considered a Zen+ chip at 7nm, if I was going to consider it it would be an APU to enable AMD to push at the notebook and corporate desktop market with a more capable one socket solution, but I don't believe that is going to happen - a Zen2 7nm chiplet with Navi based cores seems the likely 3***g solution.
Can you contradict yourself anymore? VII barely sells, never in stock?
Do you just say things because you are a troll or just ignorant?
AMD just 2 days ago stated Q2 announcement for Zen2 7nmDUV
and Zen3 in 2020 will be 7nmEUV.
Why don't you just wait for Intel's 10nm and leave everyone else alone.
The statement is true. It's doesn't sell that good, i'm not saying it doesn't sell at all, but it's not a fast seller, but it's also frequently sold out, because the supply is low.
According to any information we can gather from websites that show how much is sold per month, the RTX 2080 ti, even though much more expensive, is selling much better then the Radeon VII
According to any information we know.......
So what do we know? Literally nothing.
First of all intial release numbers were limited....like any other high priced GPU.
Secondly I just opened Newegg and behold.....6 DIFFERENT VII's in stock....right now.
I bet you the people buying VII are not same market as 2080Ti.
So because you don't know how to look up any information, you think it's not available. Alright then.
That's some solid research there.
It was 2 weeks ago that i last saw someone complaining about not being able to find Radeon VII anywhere, but i stopped paying attention.
But, you're right, it's difficult to get solid information, as not all retailers tell you what is selling or not.
Looking at mindfactory, one of the only places that does, and is used to get an idea of what is selling and what is not (if you don't know what mindfactory is, then you apparently aren't paying any attention to what is sold and what is not)
Radeon VII: 700 units sold (average 10 per day since release date)
RTX 2080 (direct competitor price wise): 9900 units sold (average 47 per day since release date) <----- Your "same market" as you say
RTX 2080 ti: 3000 units sold (average 16 per day since release date)
So you can go ahead and do no research and then claim there's no information to be had all you want, but there is information. Yes, it's not the FULL information, but mindfactory sells enough to be able to get a general idea of the trend out there.
If you choose to say "well that's just one place and doesn't mean anything therefore you're wrong!" or some nonsense, then please, provide your own basis to your "opinion", otherwise your "opinion" is just that, a baseless opinion behind zero facts.
From the above information, which is all we have unless someone else wants to let the world know of more sources to take from, the Radeon VII is not selling nearly as well as the RTX 2080, and not as well as even the RTX 2080 ti, which is much more expensive then the Radeon VII. And yet, even though the Radeon VII is not selling as well as either of them, they continue to go out of stock.
So yes, Radeon VII barely sells, and is often not in stock.
I agree with @Aura89 it at 7nm would be a waste of money now if they repurposed some pro line models like you know how they have 2700 Pros which are better silicon etc for the anniversary edition - that could appeal ... they have better results tweaking wise last longer too lifespan wise, also if the anniversary was sold to consumers like the pro line is to enterprise / with a longer warranty period, now that'd be slick as ...
hey I can dream a little even if it is dreaming but chances are it's mostly left over unsold stock with a nice logo slapped onto it not even clocked higher ... I would hope it has a refined microcode allowing a bit of a factory OC because otherwise why buy it?? In addition to cheaper cost + release of 7NM PCI-E 4.0 etc there's a lot of anyways blablabla
7nm is here, are they not just waiting on the x570 chipsets being sorted out.
Hmmm....I see the Trolls are out, and low quality too (yields are bad)...the fanboys are clearly not getting paid well.
Does it mean that AMD is able to sell all they can make? Then I see no problem.
And by that I mean: "It's doesn't sell that good" statement kind of requires reevaluation.
Not a small contradiction and considering it is part of same sentence...
It doesn't sell well, and it is often not in stock. Fact. Deal with it.
If it sold well, it would never be in stock, which is not the case. It's often not in stock, not never not in stock.
From what i have seen the last 3 weeks its been in stock, so either A: They fixed their inability to have stock or B: Buying has fallen even more off.
A company can make 1 product a year and never be in stock with demand for 2, this does not mean their product sells well, as a company that could make the same essentially thing and a demand for 10,000, but produces 15,000 each year and is always in stock, does not somehow make the company that sells and has demand for 10,000 "not sell well" because it's "always in stock".
Ability or inability to meet demand does not equate ability to sell well.
And, i never said they aren't selling, i said they aren't selling well. If AMD cold only produce 10 of these per month and all 10 sold each month, they would still not be selling well even if we were to only take into consideration mindfactories data, as it clearly shows that the direct competitors card to it at the same price point, just their website alone, sells 47 per month.
Again, inability to meet demand or ability to meet demand does not equate ability to sell well, otherwise all companies should severely limit their quantities and make it so they are frequently out of stock just to claim to investors "Oh hey we must be doing something good we're always out of stock, our product is soaring off the shelf!" with no regard to actual amounts being sold from them and their competitors and comparisons between themselves.
I wonder if they will include something new on the package for this 50th anniversary cpu ( Free something or Lisa Su signed card ) ...
Where is your supporting evidence for your "fact"??
You make the claim, you provide proof of said claim.
"It doesn't sell well and is often not in stock"..... Half of that statement has the potential to be contrary to the other half. If it's "often not in stock", then either yields are very poor, demand is simply outpacing supply or merchants simply aren't stocking the product. This is where supporting information becomes vital. Do we know, for a fact, what the actual demand is for the product? Do we know, for a fact, what the product supply actually looks like? Do we know, for a fact, what the retailer sales figures are? Either provide the relevant data, or accept that you're wrong. As you're the one making the claim, burden of proof is on you. Why should anyone else have to research supporting evidence for what YOU claim as fact?
Listed earlier in the thread. Read thread before posting. Only information we have. To state any other opinions based off of nothing is a useless opinion.
Then again you go on to talk about the same stuff that was explained already in the post you quoted from and tried to argue it as well, so i don't think you are reading anything fully.
Selling well does not equal selling out. This is fact. Otherwise all i will have to do to sell well is severely limit what i produce, it won't matter that i am selling half as much if not more then my competitor, it'll only matter to impress people who don't bother to actually look at the whole picture.
But again to reiterate: the information you asked me to provide was already provided by the only source that we have and even compared to how well the rtx 2080 and 2080 ti are selling. Read the thread before posting.
It has also already been stated that one source is not the whole picture and that is obvious, but its enough of the picture to get a rough idea of what the market is doing (its the same source that has been used and then verified by other sources to be pretty spot on when comparing intel and amd on what is selling). Unless someone thinks for some reason the hundreds of thousands of products sold in germany just from that one company is only sold to nvidia fans, or amd fans or etc.
I did "read the thread before replying".
As I'm not fluent in German, simply searching for mindfactory is pretty useless in regards to verifying information. Also, a lot of us don't consider a summary of claimed information, to be proof of anything. Provide a link, and verifying information, or STFU. The mindless fanboy drivel spouted by both sides has gotten old. It's time for everyone to grow up.