AMD released list of compatible DirectX 12 cards

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, May 14, 2015.

  1. Rich_Guy

    Rich_Guy Ancient Guru

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  2. DmitryKo

    DmitryKo Master Guru

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    Yes, "closer to the metal" (aka "high-level" with [post="5017546"]"reduced level of abstraction")[/post] is still not the same as "low-level" (aka "no abstraction" at all).

    That's quite easy to understand when you know some low-level programming languages (Z80 or x86 assembler) and a few high-level languages which are naturally lower-level (Fortran, Pascal, C, etc.) or higher-level (C++, Java, etc.) of abstraction relatively to each other. But that's too much for you to comprehend so you'd rather make more of your useless rants.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2015
  3. siriq

    siriq Master Guru

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    I am glad someone can see these things clear. Just not much people to find to be objective. So much disinfo going on. In-fact, on many "pro technical" sites as well.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2015
  4. Cyberdyne

    Cyberdyne Ancient Guru

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    You're right, slinging mud over it being called a low-level API vs lower is pretty useless. Glad that finally drove home for you. :)
     

  5. Lowki

    Lowki Master Guru

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    Fortunately, the GCN-based cards will fully support DirectX 11.2 once an updated driver has been released. As it turns out, Microsoft’s final DirectX 11.2 specification ended up being slightly different than what AMD expected. As a result, the graphics cards do not currently fully support the API. The issue is not one of hardware, however, and an updated driver can allow the GCN-based 7000 series hardware to fully support the latest DirectX 11.2 API and major new features such as tiled resources http://www.pcper.com/news/Graphics-...-Fully-Support-DirectX-112-After-Driver-Updat sounds like they can make it compatible through software.
     
  6. DmitryKo

    DmitryKo Master Guru

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    Still didn't drove home for you, as you're the only one who's been calling it "lower level API".
     
  7. DmitryKo

    DmitryKo Master Guru

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    No, they can't.

    Direct3D 11.2 runtime is part of Windows 8.1 - its major feature addition is support for optional Tiled Resources tiers 1 and 2, which cannot be "made compatible through software" as they require the GPU to have virtual memory with relevant descriptor tables and registers.

    This feature requires WDDM 1.3, so what AMD did is releasing updated Windows 8.1 drivers that support WDDM 1.3. Otherwise older WDDM 1.x drivers work but new features of the runtime are not be available.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2015
  8. Noisiv

    Noisiv Ancient Guru

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    GCN fully support 11.2 ....................


    Pleeeeease. I would not give them DX11.0 clearance for not implementing command lists :D
     
  9. xIcarus

    xIcarus Master Guru

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    You do have a point, but your language analogy is a bit off. Specifically I wouldn't include C++ as necessarily higher-level than C. C++ includes pretty much most of C, with the addition of other frameworks and APIs. Visual C++ is a good example of this. It abstracts a lot, especially system calls.
    In short, C++ can be lower-level or higher-level. It's a flexible language.

    Also, low-level languages do provide abstraction. Assembly language falls into this category, there is not always a 1:1 correspondence between an assembly instruction and the underlying machine code instruction(s). A purely non-abstracting language would be the machine code itself, I am not aware of any 1:1 assembly language.
     
  10. gx-x

    gx-x Maha Guru

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    let's be honest here - most of us only care about lower CPU overhead and thread optimizations. That will make AMD cpus on par with intel in games and give both intel and amd cpu owners more fps.
    As for the other new features - I think we have enough "special effects" so who cares...well, maybe someone does...
     

  11. waltc3

    waltc3 Maha Guru

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    Yes, and how quickly it is forgotten that "software compatibility" with hardware features means cpu-driven instead of gpu-driven, or, in other words, "dog slow"...;) Perhaps "unacceptably slow" is a better phrase. Software-driven feature compatibility, even when it's possible, is no substitute for "the metal" in many cases--it's what's been wrong with Intel's series of IGPs for a long time, for instance.
     
  12. rl66

    rl66 Ancient Guru

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    soooooo...
    looking at the list from AMD...

    All the fully DX11's GPU are DX12 compatible (with DX11 API) as already stated on GPU box from MSI and ASUS in shop...

    It is what M$ told us 6 month ago (well done AMD you make a release list that could have be an NVidia one... everyone know that already lol).
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2015
  13. rl66

    rl66 Ancient Guru

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    The API is very well done this time we have to wait release but we can be positive (specialy if you have slow GPU).

    wait and see.
     
  14. MerolaC

    MerolaC Ancient Guru

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    Last edited: May 15, 2015
  15. Tempest22

    Tempest22 Member

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    So no dx 12 for my laptop :( .
     

  16. Undying

    Undying Ancient Guru

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    7670m is 6650m rebranded, so no.
     
  17. DmitryKo

    DmitryKo Master Guru

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    Not exactly.

    ~55% of currently installed graphics hardware on the desktop (as of Feb 2015 Steam survey) are fully compatible with Direct3D 12 (which amounts to 68% of D3D11.x cards out of total 78% share for all D3D11.x cards). This includes 100% of feature level 11_1 cards and ~50% of feature level 11_0 cards (specifically all 11_0 cards from Nvidia, but not Intel Ivy Bridge or AMD Evergreen/Terascale).

    However a small share of these Direct3D12 compatible parts have minor optional features that qualify them for higher feature levels 12_0 and 12_1 (currently about 3-5% each out of all Direct3D 12 compliant GPUs on the desktop).

    We knew about the desktop parts, that is Radeon HD7700-7900/8500-8900, R5 240 and all the higher Rx 200 series (at least Graphics Core Next 1.x).

    Now AMD explicitly specified mobile and APU parts as well.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2015
  18. DmitryKo

    DmitryKo Master Guru

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    There is a direct analogy since system-level APIs are closely tied to a particular programming language and the underlying hardware architecture.

    Specifically a graphics API is hardly low-level when there is still significant level of abstraction that hides away specific hardware implementation details, even though memory/resource management has been reworked to have less abstraction and automatic memory management.

    C++ features that are specific to object-oriented programming ("classes" (objects) with member functions/sctructures, inheritance/polymorphism of classes, operator overloads for custom object manipulation, and templates) do provide a higher level of abstraction comparing to simple pointer-based memory model of standard C.

    In highly abstracted object-oriented languages like Visual Basic .Net/C#, JavaScript/TypeScript, Python and Perl/PHP almost everything is an "object" - even basic variables which would be just a simple scalar type (integer, float, string, and boolean) in lower-level languages.

    Because the lower-level part of C++ that operates on scalar types is essentially C.

    Any assembly code is still a low-level language because the level of abstraction is very minimal, even when there's no direct 1:1 mapping and there are several mnemonics/operands for a given machine code or different machine codes for a specific mnemonic/operand.
     
  19. Prefix

    Prefix Member Guru

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  20. DmitryKo

    DmitryKo Master Guru

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    [​IMG]
    Wikipedia - Direct3D 12 feature levels

    If we really have to go deeply technical, that slide from a Brazilian forum is not correct on several counts. First, none of GCN chips support rasterizer ordered views, conservative rasterization, or tiled resources tier 3 (ie. "volume tiled resources" with Texture3D support). GCN 1.1/1.2 (GCN2/GCN3 in AMD language) support tiled resourced tier 2 (with Texture2D support) - hence they are both at feature level 12_0. GCN 1.0 "only" supports tiled resources tier 1, hence feature level 11_1. Double precision floats are supported across the entire range. As for Nvidia, Kepler and Maxwell-1 do support resource binding tier 2, and do not support typed UAV load for additional texture formats - this leaves them at feature level 11_0. Maxwell-2 is currently the only card which supports feature level 12_1. [post="5070453"]It's not that it really matters much though.[/post]

    All this has been verified against the latest SDK and preliminary WDDM 2.0 drivers. Conservative depth, SAD4 or dedicated atomic counter are not part of the current SDK, neither is "emulated" tier 3 for tiled resources.
     

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