AMD Radeon (big NAVI) again rumored to get 80 Compute units

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Aug 3, 2020.

  1. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    The paper was targetting compute specific loads if im not mistaken (HPC servers going by several mentions), with compute the cpu is sporadically accessed to setup, evaluate progress and then finally confirm completed result (and this is probably missing a few details in between)

    Far different to the requirements of realtime interactive 3d rendering.

    Things might change significantly if and when DirectX adopts HAGS specific techniques.
     
  2. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    HBMs interface is massive compared to building it between GPU blocks or however the MCM would be split. Like let's say you split it into 4 blocks you'd need 4 HBM sized interfaces.. that's a ton of space/power/cost/etc.

    Also I'm not sure how HBMs interface compares to something like NVLink and IF. Idk, doesn't matter my point is I don't think this stuff is coming with RDNA2. It requires so many changes on so many levels.. and while I think the foundation is being laid for those changes, the final stage is still a few generations away.
     
  3. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

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    Fair enough, I didn't read it all, so I don't know if it refers to rendering.

    But we need to think about this in the 5/3nm context. The current Navi die is at 7nm and with 250mm2, it contains the display controllers, CUs, and the GDDR controller (which is larger than the HBM one. If they go to an I/O die design at 5nm, I can see a "basic" GPU unit with 80 CUs and more than enough space for the interconnect, with great yields.
     
  4. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    Ya, 5nm.. so not RDNA2 lol. Again I'm not saying this is impossible.. I'm saying it's not coming with RDNA2.
     

  5. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

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    @Denial there is no way this is coming with RDNA 2, I think that's very clear.
     
  6. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    RDNA2 is definitely a monolithic gpu.
     
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  7. mikeysg

    mikeysg Ancient Guru

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    All I can say is, I'm gonna try be logical and analytical about Big Navi, with Ampere rumored out next month, I'm gonna do my best to wait for Big Navi in Q4 before deciding. What it'd boil down to for me is price/performance, IF Ampere is head and shoulders above but cost about 50% more (Radeon VII vs RTX 2080 Ti pricing in my neck of the woods), I'd still go with AMD, only if nVidia decides it's status quo and sells their cards at exorbitant prices (perhaps Jensen decides that he wants more money to buy more leather jackets).

    IF by some miracle, nVidia decides to sell their cards at a more reasonable price, I might just jump ship....but what are the chances of that happening?! Given nVidia's penchant for pricing their card, a RTX3080 Ti would probably be priced in the range of an RTX 2080 Ti (perhaps even higher). Still, with my VEGA64 and GTX1080, I'd be able to hold out for Big Navi's release before I'd decide...
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2020
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  8. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

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    AMD does not have an APU with the GPU power of a 2080Ti.....
     
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  9. Fediuld

    Fediuld Master Guru

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    The ones used on the upcoming Xbox X series :)

    Go watch the DX12 channel the video running the comparison.
     
  10. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    these are not apu's.

    they are a MCP
     

  11. Fediuld

    Fediuld Master Guru

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    Nope they are singe die APUs. The one in Xbox X series is also 56CU big but 4 CU are cut off to improve yields.
     
  12. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    No it isn't, APU's are low end low power chips, this is a full featured CPU, GPU and IO Complex combined into a monolithic die.

    Prior Xboxes were built on APU's yes, because the jaguar was an APU.

    Xbox is using a custom mcp as a monolithic structure.

    Meanwhile the PS5 implementation is 3 seperate chips under a heatspreader.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2020
  13. Fediuld

    Fediuld Master Guru

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    I wrote Xbox X and not PS5 for a reason. You change the discussion.
    https://www.notebookcheck.net/Xbox-...onsole-connector-renders-at-CES.449411.0.html

    Because also the 36CU PS5 is not in par to 2080Ti which is the argument you made.
     
  14. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    That's rather misconception. APU stands for Accelerated Processing Unit. Which simply is chip that uses most fitting parts to do appropriate job... Very universal chip.

    APU by design is not low end, you have 8C/16T by now. And definitely not low power as AMD had 95W parts in past which would optimally use 125W to get most out of CPU and IGP parts without any OC in PC.
    Technically, when parts are connected via IF today, there is not big difference between having MCM or monolithic die. Parts are separated for cost efficiency and they could be as well part of one larger die.

    Now to the APU. AMD did not realize dream of APU, yet. So technically older XBOXes were no more APUs than those on desktops. We just use this name for AMD's CPUs with extra integrated GPU and other parts (if present).
    So saying that something is or is not APU is more opinion than fact based.
    = = = =
    To the topic of 80 CUs and RDNA2. I think it is bit too many for 300W due to 2~2.2GHz+ achievable clock.
    I'll be OK with full 64CUs and either 10x 1GB GDDR6 @ 18Gbps or 12x 1GB GDDR6 @ 16Gbps. (Both should provide sufficient bandwidth for 64CUs at 2GHz+.)

    64CUs at around 2.1GHz will deliver 1.8x raw horsepower of stock RX 5700 XT even without any "IPC" improvements. That's plenty even for 1440p. And should be sufficient for my 1080p gaming.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2020
  15. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    Fair enough, i see your point.

    I wouldn't consider it an APU from any perspective though, including yours.
     

  16. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    I am used to call APUs monolithic dies that have IGP and stuff (AMD). And I agree that MCM should not be called APU in general. At least for now. Maybe one day there will be so low latency penalty difference between MCM and monolithic dies from IF that making distinction will become thing of past or habit.
     
  17. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

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    XBox One used SoC's based on Jaguar..... Jaguar was never released in any form as an APU. Even the Athlon and Sempron processors based on Jaguar were SoCs....

    The entire XBox One series used an SoC, not an APU....so to call it an APU would be a misnomer... The closest AMD ever released to Jaguar on the desktop was the AM1 Athlon and Sempron SoC's, also based on Jaguar.
     
  18. Yes, be careful not to mistake APU with MCM/MCP. Even Xenos = MCM. Not that anyone argued otherwise nor brought this up. The terms have become conflated in certain circles I’ll submit.
     

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